Students for Concealed Carry on Campus

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Nightcrawler

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Forgive and delete if this is a repost. This is an article from My Way News.

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Nov 21, 4:59 AM (ET)

By MICHELLE ROBERTS

SAN MARCOS, Texas (AP) - Mike Guzman and thousands of other students say the best way to prevent campus bloodshed is more guns.

Guzman, an economics major at Texas State University-San Marcos, is among 8,000 students nationwide who have joined the nonpartisan Students for Concealed Carry on Campus, arguing that students and faculty already licensed to carry concealed weapons should be allowed to pack heat along with their textbooks.

"It's the basic right of self defense," said Guzman, a 23-year-old former Marine. "Here on campus, we don't have that right, that right of self defense."

Every state but Illinois and Wisconsin allows residents some form of concealed handgun carrying rights, with 36 states issuing permits to most everyone who meets licensing criteria. The precise standards vary from state to state, but most require an applicant to be at least 21 and to complete formal instruction on use of force.

Many states forbid license-holders from carrying weapons on school campuses, while in states where the decision is left to the universities, schools almost always prohibit it. Utah is the only state that expressly allows students to carry concealed weapons on campus.

College campuses are different from other public places where concealed weapons are allowed. Thousands of young adults are living in close quarters, facing heavy academic and social pressure - including experimenting with drugs and alcohol - in their first years away from home.

W. Gerald Massengill, the chairman of the independent panel that investigated the Virginia Tech shootings, said those concerns outweigh the argument that gun-carrying students could have reduced the number of fatalities inflicted by someone like Tech gunman Seung-Hui Cho.

"I'm a strong supporter of the Second Amendment," said Massengill, a former head of the Virginia state police. "But our society has changed, and there are some environments where common sense tells us that it's just not a good idea to have guns available."

His view is echoed by Peter Hamm, a spokesman for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, who says campus safety concerns cannot be addressed by adding more guns to campuses.

"If there's more we need to do, we certainly need to do that, but introducing random access to firearms is not the solution," said Hamm. "You have more victims, not fewer victims."

Students for Concealed Carry on Campus gathered momentum after the April killings at Virginia Tech, where the gunman shot 32 people dead before killing himself.

With the help of the social networking Web site Facebook, the group mushroomed and organized its first nationwide protest in October. The group says it is not affiliated with the National Rifle Association, a political party or any other organization.

Like the students at TSU-San Marcos who were pushing Monday for a student government resolution on the issue, students at more than 110 colleges and universities went to class wearing empty holsters, said Scott Lewis, the national group's spokesman.

"We're not proposing to arm every student. We're not proposing that every freshmen get a handbook and a Glock," he said.

But he said students who are licensed to carry concealed firearms to movie theaters, public parks and other places should be allowed to take them on campus as well.

Candace Soya, a 20-year-old student at TSU-San Marcos, said she fears chaotic shootouts. If someone decided to open fire on the tree-lined quad in the middle of her campus, armed students would likely make matters worse, she said.

"It's not a situation where you can fight fire with fire," Soya said.

But advocates pushing for the campus concealed carry right say it's not just incidents like the one at Virginia Tech that create concern.

Campuses in higher-crime urban neighborhoods also pose risks for students, said Michael Flitcraft, a 23-year-old mechanical engineering student at the University of Cincinnati.

He argues, like most gun rights advocates, that weapons-free regulations only deter law-abiding students, not thugs or mentally ill shooters.

"Laws only affect the people who voluntarily abide by them," Flitcraft said.

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I would like to point out that here in Utah, we have lawful concealed carry on the campuses of public universities and don't seem to be any worse for wear.
 
who said anything about random access?

Exactly. In any case, it's not going to be a case of 19 year old Froshies getting drunk in the dorms while playing with their Glocks. You still have to be 21 to buy a handgun (and therefore get a permit, in most States).

Thusly it becomes no different on a college campus than in any other public place, which is exactly how Utah looks at it. The University tried to ban CCW on campus; the Attorney General smacked that down hard.
 
Candace Soya, a 20-year-old student at TSU-San Marcos, said she fears chaotic shootouts. If someone decided to open fire on the tree-lined quad in the middle of her campus, armed students would likely make matters worse, she said.

"It's not a situation where you can fight fire with fire," Soya said.

Really? She should tell that to Peter Odighizuwa, the fellow whose school shooting at the Appalachian Law Library was halted by other students with firearms.
 
Good point ilcyclic.

Candace Soya, a 20-year-old student at TSU-San Marcos, said she fears chaotic shootouts. If someone decided to open fire on the tree-lined quad in the middle of her campus, armed students would likely make matters worse, she said.

"It's not a situation where you can fight fire with fire," Soya said.

And you are qualified to make that statement how?

The media excells in finding supporters of their cause.

But we must support the students with their CCW cause.
 
In all of this "gun free zone" talk, I have come to this conclusion.

If an establishment posts signs declaring that legally permitted firearms are not allowed, I think it reasonable to infer that they have assumed full and complete responsibility for your safety, while on the premises. If they fail to stop another gun carrier, legal or not from entering the establishment, they should be legally responsible and accountable for any and all harm or trauma incurred.

This should apply to banks, stores, colleges,...well, all businesses not limited by the legal carry permit. For that matter, any limitation or restriction of a legally permitted firearm in pretty dumb.
 
To: nightcrawler, I just retired from a major University, and I realy don't believe that students should have guns in the dorm rooms. Too many students get crazy at times... you know what I mean. Now STUDENTS that comute (nontraditional students):rolleyes:, that may be another case. I wouldn't want to take any one's right to gun ownership, but not in dorm rooms..
 
I'm a member of the organization on facebook. Respectfully, I disagree sarge. I know how you feel about some students getting crazy, I have to deal with them (im a resident asst. kinda like a dorm counselor / adviser / babysitter)

but i feel people who are responsible enough to protect themselves are responsible enough to do so at any time. I could concede your point with multi-bedroom dorms, as most are, but lock boxes and other solutions should be available.

regardless- i'm glad the discussion is happening. I go to Fordham University and this year alone i can recall 6 distinct instances where students were robbed at gun point less than 3-4 blocks off campus. I also remember a violent rape, and this year we had a student stabbed. these events happened in the vicinity immediately off campus and all contained resident students- something needs to be done to at least give prepared and reasonable students a chance at self defense.

not to offend, but I just wanted to throw my hat in the circle as well :)
 
i think concealed carry should be allowed. i was living on campus and i got tird of the b.s. an moved off campus. that way i could at least have a gun with me when im at "home".
 
The whole anti "irresponsible college students" argument gets even sillier when you step back and take in the big picture...We're not just talking about a ban on the students, we're also talking a ban on faculty and staff (you know, those stuffy responsible folks who actually TEACH and who keep these places RUNNING).
 
I used to be the Director of Safety & Security for a private university. I had a staff of 26, and none of them were armed with firearms. We were smack dab in the middle of a high-density, urban environment with over 200 sexual offenders living within a 5 mile radius of the campus. I taught self defense tactics to the women staff and students for free, and rallied to arm my officers and staff members who were prior military and who had valid CCW's. I was told emphatically "no", and soon I learned that my job was in jeopardy. Needless to say, I gave notice and left. The security department is now under the leadership of a female VP that hates firearms and defensive tactics that may cause an attacker to lose his/her life. I'm glad I am no longer responsible for that department. All of this was to say that if the individuals who were to be armed on these campuses (outside of LE/security) were responsible adults 21 y/o or older, with valid CCW's, I would support it without question.
 
I think the biggest thing to consider is that I highly doubt students would just get up and start buying guns because they are now allowed on campus in their dorms. So it's not like it is going to get out of control with the drinking.

To me, this just helps us that already are on top of our game in terms of defending ourselves be able to maintain that position on campus.

I also don't understand why those of us that are responsible have to suffer because of those that aren't. Yeah, a lot of kids try drugs and drinking in college. And how the heck does that affect my right to self-defense? Oh, so because you are an idiot, I don't have a legal right to defend my self.

I could play the part that only commuting students allowed to carry on campus. I just don't think it's fair overall. BUT, if it means I get to defend myself being a commuter, then I'd take it! If us gun owners fight for a foot and get 6 inches, we are doing pretty good! It's hard to make up for the anti's fighting for a foot and taking 6 yards, but it's better then nothing.
 
The problem of impaired judgement is not restricted to dorms. Most states prohibit CCW in bars, and this applies to everyone not just college students. Whether this is "fair" or not, it is apparently an attempt to control what "might happen" when alcohol and guns mix. (Seems like many patrons had to hang up guns on entering saloons in the old west, too...)

So maybe colleges should provide secure safes for personal items, and allow adults (21+ yrs) to exercise the judgement to decide under what circumstances they will carry a weapon, or leave it locked up. The secure safes would undoubtedly solve a lot of other personal property problems, too.

By the way, this wouldn't be a bad model for employers to follow, too.
 
The problem of impaired judgement is not restricted to dorms. Most states prohibit CCW in bars, and this applies to everyone not just college students. Whether this is "fair" or not, it is apparently an attempt to control what "might happen" when alcohol and guns mix. (Seems like many patrons had to hang up guns on entering saloons in the old west, too...)

Well, this tends to be another "oh the blood will run in the street" argument...that again fails to happen. In VA you can't legally CCW in a bar (or anyplace that serves alcohol) BUT you CAN carry openly! (A stupid result of anti-gun lobby work when they didn't bother to learn the entire existing law structure).

Does VA have regular shootouts at bars? Nope.
 
Back at fort drum they were very strict as to what we were permitted to have in our barracks rooms. Long list of forbiden weapons in case us infantry boys got a lil' crazy. Well guess what we got crazy just about everytime we we weren't in the field. We jumped out of windows, from the second floor into snow banks, ran naked thru the halls and yes even got into some scrapes with eachother and soldiers from other units. Yet I never saw a gun or knife pulled in anger. Beleive me we had them hidden in our rooms, plenty of guns and knives, we just were young and dumb enough to think punching eacother over a girl or a football game was normal but reaching for a weapon wasn't. Gun control doesn't work, self control does.
 
I don't believe any legislation that finds the CCW individual guilty before commission of a crime is correct (including states that prohibit bowhunters from carrying a pistol for self defense from bear attack...), but there are a lot of them out there.

It was a response to previously posted concerns about students w/ guns losing control because "you know what students and alcohol do". Sort of along the lines of, well if they can't carry them on campus, at least allow them to check them in/out of secure storage for safety off campus...
 
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