Study on steel cased ammunition and bi metal projectiles damage to barrels

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I read it and watched the video several months ago. Would things have changed if the test wasn't rapid fire? What I mean is, would the barrels have been shot out if they had been subjected to normal range use? I can't think of anyone who is going to rapid fire thousands of rounds in a single day.
 
Shoot Russian 6000 rounds buy two brand new AR's for the price difference with Federal ammo.
 
4 guns is kind of a small sample size, interesting but far from conclusive without reproducing the results multiple times.

each firearm were not cleaned at all from the first shot to the last

Wonder if cleaning after an amount of rounds constituting an average range trip might have reduced wear and resulted in fewer cycling issues?
 
4 guns is kind of a small sample size, interesting but far from conclusive without reproducing the results multiple times.



Wonder if cleaning after an amount of rounds constituting an average range trip might have reduced wear and resulted in fewer cycling issues?
Very valid question. Yes...Federal won out with overall performance but who in their common gun sense abuses or can even afford to abuse a rifle like that. If the rifles...chambers and bores had been even reasonably maintained and not overheated would the Russian ammo had the listed failures. Did the overheated barrels react to the powder...bi-metal bullets? I'm not arguing...seriously...just asking. This test is like saying Brand A tire showed less wear than Brand B tire when driven at 150 miles an hour on the family sedan. So who cares...Momma doesn't drive at a 150 miles an hour.
 
Steel is like 100/150 cheaper per thousand so your saving $1000/$1500 you should be able to replace a barrel and get a good start on needing another replacement
 
A couple of things.

First. I found the test after looking up some information regarding my SLR 106; a 5.56 AK. On another forum, a member mentioned he burned the barrel off his rifle by simply shooting 6000 rounds through it. That rifle has a cold hammer forged chrome lined barrel. He claimed that he did not abuse the rifle. AK rifles are a bit harder to put a barrel on than an AR and the SLR series can be difficult to find a replacement for. Arsenal claims that the SLR series of rifles has withstood a combined semi automatic and fully automatic fire in excess of 15000 rounds before the barrel was kaput using projectiles that were not bimetal or at least had more copper in the jacket material. I shot WOLF in the late 90's in all my Kalashnikov designed rifles and my SKS's without a problem. According to a few other threads, the three manufacturers didn't always use the same bimetal projectiles they use today. I find it interesting that the Federal barrel was still going even though the other THREE rifles were key holing after 6000 rounds.

Second. If you really want to save money, take some time and learn to reload. I can reload 5.56 for .22 cents a round after factoring in purchasing the brass and getting 5 reloads from that brass. I have gotten that many loads with my brass in .223. The cheapest WOLF I could find was .29 cents a round. Even if I only get two firings out of brass (which I always get more), I can reload for the cost of .25 cents a round. I can shoot good ammo through my rifles and it costs LESS than steel cased, bimetal ammo. Get a progressive press if you are a volume shooter and you can do all of your reloading quickly once the brass is prepped. I did have to get another top cover for the AK and modify it so it wouldn't dent the cases, but they are holding up nicely now. I can also get different projectiles and different powders. It could be argued that the set up is more expensive, but you have equipment that could be sold later if you decide and presses really do last a long time. If start up concerns you, get used equipment. That is what I did and saved some cash.
 
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Very valid question. Yes...Federal won out with overall performance but who in their common gun sense abuses or can even afford to abuse a rifle like that. If the rifles...chambers and bores had been even reasonably maintained and not overheated would the Russian ammo had the listed failures. Did the overheated barrels react to the powder...bi-metal bullets? I'm not arguing...seriously...just asking. This test is like saying Brand A tire showed less wear than Brand B tire when driven at 150 miles an hour on the family sedan. So who cares...Momma doesn't drive at a 150 miles an hour.
That's exactly what I was trying to say, just not as well haha. I want to know if people can expect that kind of wear (keyholing, etc) if they shoot 6,000 rounds under extremely normal conditions, i.e. shooting 100 rounds at the range here and there, maybe a class thrown in. Not what the ammo does when rapid fired all at once.
 
Steel is like 100/150 cheaper per thousand so your saving $1000/$1500 you should be able to replace a barrel and get a good start on needing another replacement
You need to update your information regarding the cost of steel cased ammo. If you are talking about steel cased WOLF ammo, it is .29 cents a round. That works out to over $290 for a thousand rounds. It is still cheap, but I can reload cheaper and I am saving some life on my barrels. If you are talking about surplus, you are correct about the price, but that is not the ammo I am talking about. The old Soviet block milsurp ammo (at least what I have been playing with in 7.62 x 54R, and 7.62 x 39) has more gilding metal and steel doesn't come in contact with the rifling. That is a finite supply, however. It is not the steel case that is casing the problem and the test by and large supports that, it appears to be the bi metal projectile that the three manufacturers are using. I found another article on the bimetal projectiles used by WOLF and Herters and why they might create a problem.
 
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currently I can shoot TULA steel case/bi-metal 9mm for $24/100rds OR I can get Federal 9mm brass cased ammo for $28/100rds.

let's say the barrel of a Glock is toast after 10,000 bi-metal rounds (which I highly doubt) ... I can buy a replacement barrel for $120, swap the extractor for a few extra $$$ and still have $250 left...
 
currently I can shoot TULA steel case/bi-metal 9mm for $24/100rds OR I can get Federal 9mm brass cased ammo for $28/100rds.

let's say the barrel of a Glock is toast after 10,000 bi-metal rounds (which I highly doubt) ... I can buy a replacement barrel for $120, swap the extractor for a few extra $$$ and still have $250 left...
I can reload 9mm for $12.56 per hundred. It takes me less than 20 minutes...
 
I don't currently reload and getting set up for reloading is time and money, I'd rather just buy cheap steel cased ammo; it hasn't broke my guns yet and I doubt it ever will. Maybe if I ever get into serious competitive shooting I may start reloading then, but for now factory ammo meets my needs.
 
I guess I just don't understand why people are so interested in shooting crap ammo, regardless of the jacket design. I reload, but not for .223, I primarily shoot Black Hills reloads in both 52 & 75 gr. versions. Its relatively cheap, and extremely accurate at $33/50 the last time I loaded up on it.
 
I think some maintenance would have extended the life of the barrels, but IIRC, the burn rate of the powder on the steel case stuff was also different than the Federal ammo. In addition to being less than optimal for the AR's operating system, this caused more pressure chamber and higher pressure at the gas port. Having bullets with bimetal jackets (harder than the Federal) and powder burning at the "wrong" rate is what it is.

I noticed some almost short stroking on a BCM midlength I used to own with Tula ammo. It didn't recoil as much as Federal, often didn't lock the bolt back on the last round, and ejected empties into a different pile. That's not scientific, but it was evidence to me that the ammo was definitely different. I shot some from a newer lot number over the weekend from a friend's Armalite midlength and it kicked Federal and Tula into the same pile. The cycling seemed pretty much the same, but I did notice one split Tula case at the junction of the shoulder/neck of the casing. I think they may be using powder with a different burn rate now, but the QC is still about the same.

I'd say if he hadn't been given the stuff, he wouldn't be shooting it. As for me, when I get back into AR's, I'll be feeding them reloads or decent brass case ammo.
 
I don't currently reload and getting set up for reloading is time and money, I'd rather just buy cheap steel cased ammo; it hasn't broke my guns yet and I doubt it ever will. Maybe if I ever get into serious competitive shooting I may start reloading then, but for now factory ammo meets my needs.
I don't know if you missed it, but the article said if that is the case, you are being a wise consumer by purchasing and shooting steel cased ammo. I would agree. I shoot in volume and I shoot a lot of rounds every year. Given how much I do send down range, it made sense to pick up reloading equipment. I bought much of it used, so initial cost was much lower. When you consider that my progressive cost me $399 new, I got 500 bullets with the purchase and I reload various calibers in rather large lots, it didn't take long to pay for even my new press. Using the price of .308 and 5.56, Current prices for .308 are .72 cents a round for WOLF. I can reload it for .49 cents a round using current market prices and 4 reloads for brass. Per 1000 of .308, I saved $230 on my first 1000 rounds of .308. Using the price of 5.56 of WOLF at .29 cents a round and my reloaded cost of .22 cents a round, I save $70 per 1000. Factor in the savings in 9mm of $125 for 1000, subtract the 500 free bullets and just those three calibers paid for my new press in cost savings of a combined total of 3000 rounds. I didn't include the savings in .45, 9mm Mak, 30-06 or .357 in there, which are the other calibers I shoot and have reloaded. If I decide I don't want to reload anymore, I can sell the equipment and still make back some of my investment. That is after enjoying a cost savings that is greater than shooting WOLF, Tula or Brown Bear. My argument is that people shoot this ammo in volume to save money and they really aren't saving anything because the cost per round of this ammo is more expensive than reloading and the information presented indicates that they wear a barrel out much sooner. I say that as a guy who can re barrel an AR in 10 minutes in my garage, so rebarreling doesn't worry me. Using the information presented in the article, the three rifles that shot the bimetal projectiles wore out the barrels in a little over half the round count of the Federal. They didn't just wear out, they wouldn't even stabilize the bullets and were key holing. For crying out loud they put a throat erosion gauge in the muzzle and it ate it. Do you know how whipped a barrel has to be to do that? I am sure accuracy was suffering at probably half that round count.
 
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I shoot maybe 300 rds a month ... if I save $10/100rds by reloading vs. buying steel cased ammo.... I would save roughly $30 / months or $360 / year.

Not exactly sure what quality reloading equipment costs right now and how much brass casing, primers, bullets etc are.... but last time I checked it's really hard to find brass casings and primers and saving $360 / year and have to buy all the equipment doesn't seem to be really worth it. Not to mention the safety aspect .... most kabooms I have read detailed reports on was a faulty reload or tired brass...
 
I only shoot Russian or Chinese ammo (yup, still have lots of that) in my $79 Chinese SKS.

My feeling is the gun was designed for it, the ammo was made for it, and with the chrome lined bore the gun should last a long time.

There is no way I'm putting expensive ammo through it unless I decide to buy one box for hunting.
 
I shoot maybe 300 rds a month ... if I save $10/100rds by reloading vs. buying steel cased ammo.... I would save roughly $30 / months or $360 / year.

Not exactly sure what quality reloading equipment costs right now and how much brass casing, primers, bullets etc are.... but last time I checked it's really hard to find brass casings and primers and saving $360 / year and have to buy all the equipment doesn't seem to be really worth it. Not to mention the safety aspect .... most kabooms I have read detailed reports on was a faulty reload or tired brass...
I gave a cost analysis earlier. I guess you must have missed it. I even mentioned how much I paid for my progressive (Hornady Lock n Load, a quality press.) and that that investment was covered with the first 3000 rounds combined of .223, 9mm and .308 I rolled out and that included the price of brass (by far the most expensive component). I purchase once fired and milsurp brass. That doesn't include the 2000 rounds of .45 I loaded, the 500 rounds of 06' the 200 rounds of mak (trimmed down 9mm brass to 9 x 18 size) or the 100 rounds of .357 during the first year I owned the press. The kabooms I have read about are due to over charges or someone using the wrong powder (example, pistol powder in a rifle). I have reloaded thousands of rounds and have yet to have an over charge. You watch your brass and check for signs of it wearing out. Pistol brass lasts a very long time. Not to mention I have had people give me several thousand spent pistol cases and I have found plenty more. If you don't want to reload, that is up to you. That leaves more brass and compounds in the market for me to scoop up. For me it didn't make financial sense and it really doesn't now that I have some evidence that the bimetal projectile the above mentioned manufactures use wears barrels out in 6000 rounds at least in those rifles chambered in 5.56.
 
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That luckygunner "study" gets posted to the forums constantly.

I hate steel-cased .223 ammo for reasons unrelated to barrel longevity.

Its quite a stretch to definitively say that the barrel failures were "due to" the type of bullet.
Equally-plausible explanations are the abusive rate of fire and/or the type of propellant used in the steel-case ammo.
 
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