Study on steel cased ammunition and bi metal projectiles damage to barrels

[ol' scratch]

That luckygunner "study" gets posted to the forums constantly.

I hate steel-cased .223 ammo for reasons unrelated to barrel longevity.

Its quite a stretch to definitively say that the barrel failures were "due to" the type of bullet.
Equally-plausible explanations are the abusive rate of fire and/or the type of propellant used in the steel-case ammo.

If it was due to the abusive amount of fire, wouldn't the rifle firing the federal have the same problem? I guess it might be the powder, but even if it was wouldn't that indicate a problem with the ammunition? There is another link I posted from a Microscopy and Imaging Specialist who measured the jacket material in WOLF and Herters with an electron microscope and performed Energy Dispersive X-Ray Analysis on the projectiles. Using his measurements, he hypothesized that his rifling was wearing through what he described as the thin copper jacket and coming in contact with the steel underneath. To test this theory, He fired projectiles into large stacks of newspaper and found that the rifling from the pistol scraped off the copper. His test was in 9mm and 9mm Mak. The pistols were a CZ 82, a Hi Point and a P64. Also, I found this information because I was looking for information on my SLR 106 and found a member of another forum who wore the barrel on his SLR out in 6000 rounds shooting this ammo. http://www.theakforum.net/forums/19...-my-slr-106-barrel-less-than-7000-rounds.html

 

[1KPerDay]

I read it and watched the video several months ago. Would things have changed if the test wasn't rapid fire? What I mean is, would the barrels have been shot out if they had been subjected to normal range use? I can't think of anyone who is going to rapid fire thousands of rounds in a single day.

Exactly. This is an oft-quoted and interesting source, but has one major pitfall that they should have addressed. They don't specify how long or IF they let the barrels cool between mags, or how quickly they went through the ammo. The reference implies that they went through the ammo very quickly. Correct me if I'm wrong.

It may not have made any difference, but it may have. Under "normal" shooting conditions the bimetal/magnetic jacketed ammo may have performed differently or had less of a harmful effect on the barrels. I'd eventually like to see another test where variables are more strictly controlled. Who knows... the different powder may have even had some influence on heat/barrel wear, etc.

 

[bainter1212]

I guess I just don't understand why people are so interested in shooting crap ammo, regardless of the jacket design. I reload, but not for .223, I primarily shoot Black Hills reloads in both 52 & 75 gr. versions. Its relatively cheap, and extremely accurate at $33/50 the last time I loaded up on it.

Interested? Its got nothing to do with that. Its about trigger time.

I have a concealed carry permit. I highly value practice and familiarity with my weapon and I am not wealthy either......that means I need to put as many rounds downrange as possible for the lowest price.

I reload, but I have found good deals on Tula .45acp previously and found it to be reliable and accurate. I would not hesitate to use it for practice.

If I have to replace the barrel on my Kimber after 10,000 rds then so be it. At least I got the practice time in while staying within my (rather tight) budget.

 

[1KPerDay]

I guess I just don't understand why people are so interested in shooting crap ammo, regardless of the jacket design. I reload, but not for .223, I primarily shoot Black Hills reloads in both 52 & 75 gr. versions. Its relatively cheap, and extremely accurate at $33/50 the last time I loaded up on it.

Maybe you're okay with paying $.60+/rd for .223 but I'm a working man. You can find steel cased for half and even a third of that price. Last time I stocked up on Tula it was .20/rd. Surplus 5.45 7n6 was $.13/rd shipped 14 months ago.

2x or 3x more shooting=more fun, more practice, etc.

Different strokes, I guess.

 

[JohnBT]

I have 2 cases left of Swiss GECO 9mm bimetal rounds. The Swiss don't make trash. Or maybe the P-210s they shoot it in are up to the task.

It was the P-210 target shooters who recommended it to me.

"GECO and RWS are the CCI/Speer and Federal Cartridge of Europe. Besides GECO and RWS, Dynamit Nobel also owns Rottweil, home of the Brenneke shotgun slug."

 

[DBR]

With respect to bimetal bullets and barrel wear:
Higher quality bimetal bullets may have a thicker layer of copper over the steel. Since copper is softer than the gilding metal jacket used on jacketed bullets a bimetal bullet with a copper layer that does not allow the steel to touch the rifling may actually wear a barrel less than a conventional jacket would.

 

[JohnBT]

And what some call steel is probably no more than mild, soft iron.

I had a copy of the GECO 9mm lab report on my old - dead - pc. Someone actually had the case and bullet tested.

 

[ol' scratch]

Maybe you're okay with paying $.60+/rd for .223 but I'm a working man. You can find steel cased for half and even a third of that price. Last time I stocked up on Tula it was .20/rd. Surplus 5.45 7n6 was $.13/rd shipped 14 months ago.

2x or 3x more shooting=more fun, more practice, etc.

Different strokes, I guess.

A fellow "Working man" here. I reload because it is still cheaper than Tula. Right now Tula is running .31 cents a round according to Slickguns. It has been a little while since you purchased ammo. I just checked my records and a few years ago before the latest panic, I was reloading 5.56 for .13 cents a round. (sale items, 19.99 for 1000 primers, bulk powder purchase, bulk bullet purchase, fell into some range brass). That works out to a $70 savings per thousand compared to your quoted Tula price. I don't shoot 5.45, but if I did I would buy the surplus ammo. It is better quality than the new bi metal offerings according to everything I am reading. I shoot old 7.62 x 54R Bulgarian Ball in my Mosin and shot WOLF in my SKS rifles when I still owned them in the late 90's, early 2000's. There is a whole thread that discusses how the bimetal companies changed the gilding material in their projectiles around 2007 on the AK forum. Just because someone says they don't want to purchase the cheapest possible item, doesn't mean they don't work for their pay. They just see value in the higher quality item.

 

[fallout mike]

I hate steel cased crap bc I like for my bullets to hit exactly where im aiming at every single time.

 

[JohnBT]

They make non-steel crap ammo too you know. Just because it says Made in America doesn't make it accurate.

 

[goon]

They make non-steel crap ammo too you know. Just because it says Made in America doesn't make it accurate.

Absolutely true. I had some Lake City 5.56, I think it was LC 11 headstamp, that had strange issues and blew a primer in an AR. The primer got jammed between two locking lugs and required the upper to be removed from the lower with both pins, then sliding them apart, for me to pry it out. I got it in a trade deal and think it was probably some kind of bulk packed reject ammo originally rather than regular XM193.

Just by looking at ammo, you can't tell whether it's trustworthy or not. Seems these days that you have to know specifically what you're buying.

 

[fallout mike]

John, agreed. Brass may or may not be good. Steel imported is nearly all crap though.

 

[HankB]

Unless the powder is identical, the test is not simply a bullet test.

You can claim that Brand "A" ammunition will wear out a barrel faster than Brand "B" with some legitimacy (and a large enough sample size) but when cases, powder, bullets, and primers are different, you can't really separate out the effects of each component.

 

[itsa pain]

First. I found the test after looking up some information regarding my SLR 106; a 5.56 AK. On another forum, a member mentioned he burned the barrel off his rifle by simply shooting 6000 rounds through it. That rifle has a cold hammer forged chrome lined barrel. He claimed that he did not abuse the rifle. AK rifles are a bit harder to put a barrel on than an AR and the SLR series can be difficult to find a replacement for. Arsenal claims that the SLR series of rifles has withstood a combined semi automatic and fully automatic fire in excess of 15000 rounds before the barrel was kaput using projectiles that were not bimetal or at least had more copper in the jacket material. I shot WOLF in the late 90's in all my Kalashnikov designed rifles and my SKS's without a problem. According to a few other threads, the three manufacturers didn't always use the same bimetal projectiles they use today. I find it interesting that the Federal barrel was still going even though the other THREE rifles were key holing after 6000 rounds.

Second. If you really want to save money, take some time and learn to reload. I can reload 5.56 for .22 cents a round after factoring in purchasing the brass and getting 5 reloads from that brass. I have gotten that many loads with my brass in .223. The cheapest WOLF I could find was .29 cents a round. Even if I only get two firings out of brass (which I always get more), I can reload for the cost of .25 cents a round. I can shoot good ammo through my rifles and it costs LESS than steel cased, bimetal ammo. Get a progressive press if you are a volume shooter and you can do all of your reloading quickly once the brass is prepped. I did have to get another top cover for the AK and modify it so it wouldn't dent the cases, but they are holding up nicely now. I can also get different projectiles and different powders. It could be argued that the set up is more expensive, but you have equipment that could be sold later if you decide and presses really do last a long time. If start up concerns you, get used equipment. That is what I did and saved some cash.

The time involved in loading for semis is mind boggling. How long would it take you to have reloaded the 15000 rounds you shot in your AKs?

 

[itsa pain]

I hate steel cased crap bc I like for my bullets to hit exactly where im aiming at every single time.

There are a lot of dead people that would disagree with you. They were all gunned down by cheap junk ammo that cant hit anything