Stupid question....

[TheSpaceWanderer]

Or is it??? I don't know.

Hi guys,

I am brand new to reloading. I just got my press last week and I've been reading through the manual it came with and I picked up another that's specific for the caliber I want to reload (44 mag). I plan on reloading for my marlin 1894 first. It's new and I want to shoot it. From what I read on the forums, rifles and pistols chambered in 44 are not identical. Pistols like .429/.430 while rifles tend to like .431/.432. So I picked up some .431s sjfp from Everglades ammo.

While pouring through the manuals I have I noticed that nowhere in them do they specify loads for .431 bullets. They have loads for .429 and .430.

So being brand spanking new at this that was enough to stop me in my tracks.

Now to the question. I can only assume that wider bullets would have increased tension between the case and bullet and that that would effect the amount of pressure needed to send it on its way and that would effect the powder charge.

But what do I know....

 

[Lafitte]

Don't make any assumptions, just follow data in the loaing manual. I have been loading for .44mag for over 20 years and have loaded for several different pistols and rifles including Marlins with both micro and ballard rifling. If you want to know exactly what the bore of any particular firearm is I slug the bore and measure the slug. I can asure you that any published powder charge, even the starting load, will send the bullet on its way.

Lafitte

 

[Load Master]

Or is it??? I don't know.

Hi guys,

I am brand new to reloading. I just got my press last week and I've been reading through the manual it came with and I picked up another that's specific for the caliber I want to reload (44 mag). I plan on reloading for my marlin 1894 first. It's new and I want to shoot it. From what I read on the forums, rifles and pistols chambered in 44 are not identical. Pistols like .429/.430 while rifles tend to like .431/.432. So I picked up some .431s sjfp from Everglades ammo.

While pouring through the manuals I have I noticed that nowhere in them do they specify loads for .431 bullets. They have loads for .429 and .430.

So being brand spanking new at this that was enough to stop me in my tracks.

Now to the question. I can only assume that wider bullets would have increased tension between the case and bullet and that that would effect the amount of pressure needed to send it on its way and that would effect the powder charge.

But what do I know....

SAAMI is your friend that for most rounds can be found online. Here is the LINK to your round in question. It shows for .44 Remington Magnum the bullet in lead should be between .4320 and no smaller than .4260 inches. The print actually shows .4320 - .0060 inches.

Welcome to the world of reloading. Lots to learn. Enjoy the ride. It is addictive.

 

[drband]

You are good to go as explained above!

 

[thomas15]

There are many things that have an effect on the pressure/speed of the projectile. Bullet diameter is only one of those things. As you have seen I'm sure, not every barrel is the same in a given caliber, not every bullet is held to the precise mfg. tolerance, not every powder or primer produces the same pressure, not every pc of brass is the same. You can probably have more of an effect on pressure by varying the seat depth of the bullet more than the amount of case neck tension caused by .001 bullet thickness variance. Hence the reason we often state that start development of your load at the low end of the charge. Start with a tried and true formula then work from there. I'm not sure that starting out with full house magnum loads is a good thing or not, will deflect to others that have traveled that path.

Enjoy the hobby, hide your wallet.

 

[ironworkerwill]

Stupid questions are the ones that goes unasked.

Your queries provide insight to the otherwise ignorant, myself included, once answered.

After the suggested slugging and making proper bullet selection, ALWAYS start at the starting load published. This is a fail-safe in its own right. Make a few loads at this starting recipe and test fire. You'll use these starting loads to identify if you should stop or continue with load development.

It is also advantageous to make an uncharged and unprimed round to check for feeding and chambering. If something doesn't feel just right, mark the round with a marker(sharpie or the like) to see where your problem is.

 

[Reloadron]

The only way you will know your actual bore diameter is if you slug the bore and take an actual measurement. While load manuals offer load data for rifle and handgun if we go to the store we are just buying Remington 44 Magnum ammunition. Bullet diameters jacketed and case will run in the .428" to .431" range with either suitable for rifle or handgun and average diameter of .430".

SAAMI is your your friend that for most rounds can be found online. Here is the LINK to your round in question. It shows for .44 Remington Magnum the bullet in lead should be between .4320 and no smaller than .4260 inches. The print actually shows .4320 - .0060 inches.

SAAMI is your friend.

Ron

.

 

[Blue68f100]

There is no stupid question when it comes to hand loading. You don't ask may get you or others hurt. Your question has already been answered but I will add some more info to help you expand your knowledge. In general Lead bullets are 0.001"-0.002" over size to the bore. Proper fit is a must when shooting lead to help prevent leading. There are other things in play that impact loading lead. Most have moved to the HyTeck/powder coat bullets which eliminated the leading issue.

 

[Load Master]

I'll add one more comment that I forgot in my first response. It is a good idea to have the means to accurately measure bullet diameter. A one inches micrometer is a good thing to have around.

 

[TheSpaceWanderer]

Gentlemen,

The replies are greatly appreciated.

The first thing I did once I had the press secured to the bench was make a dummy round (or 2).

I did pick up a set of dial calipers (though I am jealous of those fancy Mitutoyos) when I bought the press. I've been having fun measuring every dimension on the cases pre and post sizing.

The links are great! I will print out that SAAMI spec sheet and hang it on the wall over my press. The article on slugging was also great. I will have to make a trip to the hardware store this weekend and pick up the supplies to slug the barrel. Is there anything I should be cautious of while slugging other than the obvious? Of course safety check, and don't hammer directly on the muzzle. Any mistakes that have been made previously would be great to learn from. No point in making them twice right. I'd rather venture into the uncharted and discover new mistakes never before thought off.

All the gun shops in my area that I care to patron are out of the powder and primers I need. So I'm grounded until next week (hopefully no later!) anyway.

As far as hiding my wallet goes. My computer knows my credit card info......I've just gotten used to having nice things and being broke all the time.

Thanks again for all the info, I'm glad I joined the group. I'm sure I'll have more questions in the future.

 

[Sunray]

"...brand new to reloading..." Read the how to chapters of your manual before you do anything. And follow it religiously.
"...loads for .429 and .430..." Jacketed and cast bullets respectively. Load according to jacketed or cast and you'll be fine.
"...those fancy Mitutoyos..." A 0 to 1 micrometer really isn't necessary. The plastic RCBS dial verniers work just as well. Mind you, digital's are easier to read for any age eyes.
A Vernier can be set to be used as a case length gauge, an OAL gauge(that's measured from the pointy part of the bullet to the flat part of the case, not the ogive.) and other length gauges.
"...My computer knows my credit card info..." Get that off your machine. It's how that info gets stolen.

 

[Nature Boy]

Enjoy the hobby, hide your wallet

You and enjoy reloading, or have a fat wallet. You can't have both

 

[Load Master]

"...those fancy Mitutoyos..." A 0 to 1 micrometer really isn't necessary. The plastic RCBS dial verniers work just as well. Mind you, digital's are easier to read for any age eyes.

Sunray, your response made me laugh! According to my wife, there is nothing on my reloading bench that is really a necessity or necessary. However, it doesn't mean I don't want one.

 

[kingmt]

While I can't say I agree there is no such thing as a stupid question I will say it's more stupid not to ask when you don't know.

This one doesn't seem stupid at all but maybe more advanced then you need before a round is made. You said you made dummy rounds. Did they function OK? If so load a few, shoot a few, then repeat. Sick with this simple practice while you keep reading & learning.

I don't remember why I started this forum but I do know I've learnt while I've tried to help others here. There is several members here that I've come to respect their knowledge. Keep reading& you'll soon learn which ones they are. For the most part this is a very friendly forum & your questions are welcome. We won't make you feel belittled over wanting to learn.

 

[FROGO207]

OP Welcome to the forum. I predict you soon will be helping others as well in the near future. Remember, we ALL had to learn how to do it in the beginning and questions when stuck just help you get there faster.

 

[JohnnyFlake]

There are NO Stupid Questions, especially when it come to reloading and firearms in general!

 

[Load Master]

TheSpaceWanderer, one other comment. Keep a log of all your loads. I have records of every round I've made. I use to just keep logbooks and I still fill one out at my bench. This data is also entered into an Excel Spread Sheet. It keeps the component cost, details of the round recipe totals of each cal and notes from the range and from chronograph. This allows me to go back and duplicate any of my better loads.

 

[0ne3]

SAAMI is your friend that for most rounds can be found online. Here is the LINK to your round in question. It shows for .44 Remington Magnum the bullet in lead should be between .4320 and no smaller than .4260 inches. The print actually shows .4320 - .0060 inches.

Welcome to the world of reloading. Lots to learn. Enjoy the ride. It is addictive.

I looked at the link you posted for 44mag. for SAMMI. I saw the size for the bullet, what are the outher numbers, ( 10.973 -0.152) mean

 

[hdwhit]

The Space Wanderer wrote:
Stupid question?

No such thing.

And welcome.

The Space Wanderer wrote:
I can only assume that wider bullets would have increased tension between the case and bullet and that that would effect the amount of pressure needed to send it on its way and that would effect the powder charge.

Yes. You have correctly surmised the mechanism at work. Sending a .432 bullet down a .430 barrel requires more pressure than sending a .431 bullet down the same barrel. This is because the pressure produced by the burning powder has to essentially "resize" the bullet.

The reason everyone - including me - is concerned that you follow published data for your bullet size is that pressure effects burn rate which in turn can cause what is essentially a feed-back loop resulting in increased pressure and unless you understand enough about the chemistry of nitroclycerine and nitrocellulose this relationships is not predictable.

You may want to have the chambers of your pistol and rifle "cast" by a gunsmith so that you can measure the actual dimensions and use the appropriate size bullet. The reason is that you want to use a bullet whose outside diamater fits the grooves of the rifling in your gun so that you get good accuracy but is not so large that you expend all the energy of your powder charge "resizing" the bullet rather than sending it on its way.

 

[SwaneeSR]

Space Wanderer -

Welcome to THR.

There is a lot of help on this site. I for the most part use Google to search this site before I post a question and thread. It is not that I am afraid a question is "stupid". It is more that many of my early questions were already answered on the site. If you read the threads here you will learn a lot. These guys have been patiently helping us newer folks for a long time.

Another thing to remember - posting the "stupid" question also gives the rest of us a refresher on the topic.

Good luck, I had to put myself on a tight budget. The initial spending was a little tough. Now I have good equipment and have developed my own process and are safely enjoying a wonderful hobby. My hunting and shooting has drastically improved, just ask the deer up here in MN and WI.

Swanee

 

[hdwhit]

I want to echo what Load Master said, I've been reloading for 37 years and that experience has taught me to do two things:

1. Take what you have learned from reading your reloading manual and reduce it to a check-list of steps to follow in reloading. Print out a copy of the checklist each time you reload and check off each step only after it is completed. This alone will help you avoid many of the common pitfalls that can leave you with nicknames like "lefty" or "one eye".
2. Each time you reload, fill out a load form with information about the load including date loaded, caliber, powder used, charge weight, bullet maker, bullet weight, primer used, etc. Keep this with the reloaded cartridges (or number it and put it in a binder amd then number the box of the cartridges). If you make a mistake - and you will - having a written log of what you did will facilitate diagnosis and correction.

It took me a while - and some nearly catastrophic experiences to work this out, but I now use it religiously. I can trace a batch of reloads to the very day they were reloaded - even loads done November 22, 1980.

 

[Load Master]

I looked at the link you posted for 44mag. for SAMMI. I saw the size for the bullet, what are the outher numbers, ( 10.973 -0.152) mean

The number is a different unit, millimeters.

 

[Walkalong]

While sometimes we get some poorly thought out questions (This isn't one of them, you did your research first), no questions are stupid. There are of course some poor answers from time to time, but the members catch those pretty quickly and correct them.

Yes, a .432 lead bullet will take a hair more pressure to move down the bore than a .430 one, but not enough to factor in if you follow good load practices. As long as it is loaded properly and chambers fine, you're OK. There are many things that affect pressure much more. A good micrometer is nice, sometimes they come in handy, and occasionally we need them, but a good dial or digital caliper will suffice for most things. You don't need one just yet.

Load it up with a starting charge from your book and try it out. Seat the bullet so you can roll crimp the case mouth into the crimp groove on the bullet. The lube grooves (Full of a waxy lube, probably red or blue), will be below that and will be hidden when seated.

Welcome to THR