Subshotmachine gun?

[Nolo]

That's as close as you're going to come to what you're looking for while still having the handiness and short range functionality of an SMG. Anything else and you're looking into a simply shortened version of a regular autoloading shotgun. Honestly, for a subgun to be any better than an intermediate rifle in a small package, it must be very small and concealable.

I disagree. You could make the weapon bullpup or just put the magazine in front of the grip with a relatively short barrel. Since we're not trying to break fragmentation velocity, a shorter barrel is less of a problem.

 

[Javelin]

Ok ok. M249-12 gauge shorty barrel w/ M4 collapsible stock (linked or magazine option). Something out of sci-fi I think. Good idea. Now Tony Ruemur needs to make it!

 

[Bud Tugly]

Most 12 gauge reduced-recoil 000 buckshot loads I've seen shoot 9 pellets at around 1150 ft/sec and I don't see anyone saying they are useless for self defense. Why would the 5 pellets at 1140 fps out of a .410 be ineffective?

Mind you, if I'm defending my life and family I want the biggest gun I can get, but I think some people just refuse to give the smaller guns any credit at all. Not everybody can handle the weight and recoil of the biggest guns, so they're forced to compromise as best they can.

 

[Nolo]

Mind you, I would also have a much greater magazine capacity and rate of fire than most shotguns.
I'm thinking about using a 3" .500 caliber saboted .36 caliber ( ball or streamlined?) triplex round now. Do you think I should use a triplex or quadriplex load?

 

[Bud Tugly]

Nolo, if you're looking for something that will put as much lead in the air as possible, why not just build yourself one of these:

http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_DREAD,,00.html

 

[Robert Hairless]

The Saiga 12 right from the factory has the mildest perceived recoil of any 12 gauge shotgun I've ever fired. Two magazines full are not even an appetizer.

 

[ilcylic]

Bogie: Tromix does an 8 inch Saiga conversion that works just fine. An 18.5 chop should work great. http://www.FBMGinc.com has listings for them and plain Saiga-12s.

 

[Bad Penny 03]

poor solution to a non-existent problem.

Belt fed and drum magazine .410ga's have already been explored and the projects dropped due to pattern density issues and overall ineffectiveness.

Those that the products would be marketed too had access to select fire weapons and other munitions so a weapon with limited range and spotty "Accuracy" using feeding devices and ammunition that didn't fit the TO&E was, in the end, just a silly and pointless idea.

I think this looks really good on paper...if you write comic books.

 

[357wheelgunner]

I've shot 20 gauge, and I still think it's a bit big. Wide, really. I want to avoid a maximum magazine capacity of only 10-ish rounds.

Um....What are you doing with your shotgun that you need/want more than 10 rounds for...Is it zombies or ninjas that plague you?

As far as pellets on board, a 10 round Saiga has:

10 shells x 12 pellets each = 120 pellets in 10 shots

Lets say you could cram 15 or 20 .410 5 pellet shells into a magazine similar in size to the 12 guage 10 round magazine (which is HUGE):

15 shells x 5 pellets each = 75 pellets

20 shells x 5 pellets each = 100 pellets

What have you gained, less lead in smaller doses for those herds of invaders we all need to repel?

Shotgunners need more training, not more ammunition on board to miss with.

 

[foghornl]

Hmmmmmm........

A belt-fed or very-large capacity box magazine "full-auto" shotgun???

Interesting concept...I think it would just about REQUIRE full-brass shells...Imagine ripping off a long burst, then the plastic shell sits in the hot chamber for a while....could be verrrrry interrrresting on the next shot or 2.

 

[Kipling79]

I think a lot of people are giving less credit to this idea than it deserves. The .410 is far from non-lethal, and the weight/size of the shells would alow for larger magazing capacity. That is all that matters for a self defense weapon right? In additon, it has less recoil, always a bonus for accuracy and usability, especially if a smaller member of the household needs to use it.

Claiming that the user of a gun should become more accurate instead of getting a bigger magazine goes against most self-defense philosophies. Yes, accuracy is important, but in an emergency situation, you want as few reloads as possible.

 

[brighamr]

Many cartridges\calibers\shells etc started by someone thinking "outside the box". the cartridge\shell begins as a wild cat, then after general acceptance the rest of the world wants one.

Keep on with the idea. I think you have something here, just need to iron out the details.