Suggest: 1-4X scope/mount and BUIS for M4

[henschman]

Buy the best scope you can get for the money, and then if you want to help unemployed Americans, you can give to a charity or something. IMO it is best to keep your economic decisions and your charitable giving separate. Don't make purchases based on which group you want to help out; buy from whoever offers the best product for the best price.

 

[Inebriated]

What's your budget like?

Trijicon Accupoint, Vortex Viper PST, or Leupold VX-R, and Leupold VX-Hog (in that order) are great 1-4x's in my experience.

 

[checkmyswag]

Looking to spend less than $200 on the scope.

Also need a mount and back up sights, so a $150 scope, quickly turns into a $250-$300 project.

 

[helotaxi]

Since you're on a budget, forgo the backup sights. You'll never use them anyway. Without backup sights you can go with a fixed scope mount and save some more money. I've taken a liking to the AR Stoner mount from Midway in that regard. For a budget setup, that mount and a Weaver 1-3 for under $225 would be tough to beat.

 

[Inebriated]

If you can come up just a TAD to $250, you can get a Nikon M223.

I agree with helotaxi on the mount and holding off on BUIS.

 

[checkmyswag]

Been considering that. Waiting on backup sights and a QD mount. For the time being if my optic fails...can just change it out for the carry handle at my leisure.

Suppose I need to figure out a budget and lock it down. It keeps dropping.

Any other deals out there? Sales? Combo scope/mount deals?

Watch your lane.

 

[Dean1818]

You're still supporting foreign jobs with Leupold.

How?

My VXR is built in the USA

 

[helotaxi]

How?

My VXR is built in the USA

Where do you think the glass and some of the internals come from. There are no lens manufacturers in the US. All Leupold glass is imported as well as some of the small parts. They make the tubes in house and assemble them. Some of their non-riflescope optics are entirely imported.

 

[Dean1818]

Maybe, i didnt know that..... But

IMHO...... Maybe not worth 2 cents......

If we dont get behind american manufacturers for guns (and any other
Manufactured products) we will soon see this country fail economically,
You cant have a surviving economy with 100 percent service jobs

By buying the cheapest on every front, we lose innovation, and strengthen
Countries that are our enemies.

Leupold still manuafactures a good product, if MOST of the manufacturing is done here in the USA, its good enough for me

 

[MP-44]

Leupold Firedot. Made in the USA.

I went with this model over the patrol because I didn't need or want the turret that is on the patrol.

IIRC, I paid around $425

The mount is an ADM Recon.

 

[helotaxi]

Maybe, i didnt know that..... But

IMHO...... Maybe not worth 2 cents......

If we dont get behind american manufacturers for guns (and any other
Manufactured products) we will soon see this country fail economically,
You cant have a surviving economy with 100 percent service jobs

By buying the cheapest on every front, we lose innovation, and strengthen
Countries that are our enemies.

Leupold still manuafactures a good product, if MOST of the manufacturing is done here in the USA, its good enough for me

Consumer support has so little to do with the loss of manufacturing jobs in this country at this point that the whole "Buy American" thing is almost a joke. A better slogan would be "Vote American" meaning clean house in D.C. Vote for guys that aren't the establishment and actually care about the country more than they care about lining their own pockets and getting re-elected. Until D.C. is reigned in, the power of the unions are reigned in, the EPA is reigned in and healthcare costs are reigned in (mandating that everyone purchase helathcare insurance certainly did nothing to address the reason many people didn't have it in the first place which is cost) it is not economically feasible to produce anything in this country.

Companies aren't charities and are business to make money, not to provide "good" jobs. As long as the difference in production costs more than offset transport costs, manufacturing will continue to be outsourced. Labor is almost always the single largest production expense between salaries and benefits. Regulatory compliance is rapidly approaching it in cost. And I'm not talking about the actual pollution control equipment and the like but rather the regular audits and massive levels of accounting layers of bureaucracy involved not just in being in compliance with ever changing regulations but having to prove it. The government is essentially making it impossible for a manufacturing company to do business in the U.S. anymore by raising the overhead to an unsustainable level. The firearms industry is one of the last holdouts, but in so many cases, the states where firearms production facilities are located are proving almost hostile to them and the jobs they provide. As soon as these facilities are uprooted and moved to a more politically friendly locale, any grandfather provisions that might have been in place at the old facility are now gone and the cost of relocation forces the company to find ways to reduce costs and that almost always means replacing labor intensive processes with automation and fewer jobs.

Also, I wouldn't place Leupold up on a pedestal. Last info I has was that their markup was in the 60% range. That tells me that they *could* pay their workers more based on what people will blindly pay for the name or *could* offer more scope for the money or lower prices and still be quite profitable. They've begun importing more and more parts and whole products while spending large amounts of money on advertising perpetuating the whole "Made in the USA" thing. The fact that they are very vague about where their imported components are sourced or even exactly what is imported is, to me at least, very telling.

If you really want to support US jobs with your purchases, optics isn't the place to do it since there is and never has been a US optics industry. Guns and gun parts and accessories are a completely different story. I own two firearms made outside the US. One is a Chinese Norinco 1911 from the early 90's when no one in the US made a 1911 worth owning and the other is a Japanese made Browning X-bolt purchased because no US produced rifle offered what I was looking for (7mm WSM, left-handed). Most all of the aftermarket components on my rifles (with the exception of optics) are US made, but realize that those purchases came about not out of some sense of patriotism, but rather because those products offered a level of quality and innovation at a price that I was willing to pay. The AR Stoner mount that I recommended above falls into that category. Leupold does not. I have 4 scopes made in the Philippines (3 of them Nikons believe it or not) and a ton made in Japan. The price to performance is there with those options. I can't say the same for Leupold with the possible exception of the Redfield Revolution line.

I'll end my rant now.

 

[checkmyswag]

Back to the scope decision!

I appreciate the political/economic discussion and understand why things made here or over there cost what they do. Those details are above my pay grade.

I suppose I would be much more OK with buying a Japanese made scope than a Chinese one though. Former enemies make much better trading partners than current/future ones.

I plan on getting something next weekend, so I need to make my decision soon.

I wouldn't be against buying a quality used scope either. That money stays here regardless of where it was made.