Suggest: 1-4X scope/mount and BUIS for M4

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checkmyswag

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Fixed front post, 16" barrel, flat top.

Decided I'd like a 1-4X scope/mount and a back up iron sight for an M4.

I see a lot of good options out there.

Burris, Leupold, Millet, Nikon, not sure where to begin.

I want it to be a true 1X on the low end, illumination would be nice but not an absolute necessity.

I also don't know how far out I should mount it on the rail.

For the scope/mount/BUIS, I'm looking for good quality at a reasonable price. I don't need the best but don't want junk.

Suggestions?
 
I also don't know how far out I should mount it on the rail.
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This is determined by your cheek weld and the eye relief of the scope, we don't have much say in the matter.

As far as the scope, I like both the Millett DMS as well as the Nikon M223, but I have no experience with the other two.
 
I like the Nikon Monarch African 1-4x for the money. It has no illumination. I don't like illumination in a magnified scope.

+1 for the American Defense Scout Mount. This is what i have. However, the Burris PEPR mount is a very good mount as well.
 
My feeling is that if this a fighting rifle then the scope mount has to be a QR type, the rear iron will be all but useless with any scope, 1x or not. So the best choice is the LaRue SPR-E. It's painful to layout that much cash but it is worth it.

That ADR mount also looks pretty good.
 
Sorry, but no one has ever been able to show me a demonstrable advantage for the Larue mount over an ADM mount. What does the extra $$$ buy?
 
helotaxi said:
Sorry, but no one has ever been able to show me a demonstrable advantage for the Larue mount over an ADM mount. What does the extra $$$ buy?
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The money buys the actual R&D of developing and engineering a quality mount vs buying a cheap knock-off from a stolen idea.


This is an independent test, but it seems your mind is made up and it will be disregarded, but I'll post it anyways for others to decide upon. Mark LaRue may be outspoken and very prideful of his work, but he is not a liar.


http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_219/157964_.html
 
For BUIS I have yet to see anything better than Troy. As far as the LaRue mount, if LaRue is an option you should just get it. Their QD system works great and it holds zero better than anything else I have used. If you plan on swapping out your glass it is a great investment.
 
If you want true 1x, you will have to spend some $$. The only one I've looked through that was actual perfect 1x was the Trijicon TR-24. Vortex Viper isn't, Burris isn't, Leupold isn't, and the Chinese ones like Leatherwood, Millet, and Primary Arms sure as hell aren't. BTW I personally wouldn't consider Leatherwood after my experience with a CMR. It broke after less than 100 rounds on my M1A. I replaced it with a Burris TAC30, which was somehow both cheaper and much higher quality. I would recommend one, but it isn't perfect 1x. It goes slightly less, where targets at distance appear smaller than they really are. You can get true 1x by bumping the power ring up a tiny bit though.

For a flip-up rear sight, I have never seen a better one than my KAC 2-600m model. It is great because it is adjustable for elevation as well as windage, which very few of the other flip-ups are, and it does so in MOA-incremented clicks just like the factory carry handle. Basically it does everything the factory carry handle does, but in a small fold-able package. I understand lots of people don't care about adjustable elevation at the rear sight on a backup though. That would be your call. If you don't want adjustable elevation, the Troy is nice.
 
I have a Vortex Viper PST 1-4x24...a true 1x at a affordable price, clear glass
It sits on a Burris Pepper QD mount ...gives it the perfect height to mount my Mbus's...
 
The money buys the actual R&D of developing and engineering a quality mount vs buying a cheap knock-off from a stolen idea.
Click to expand...

ADM took an excellent but outdated design and improved upon it.

LaRue mount uses a rotating lever that rotates and presses against your reciever, sometimes damaging it. ADM uses a rotating lever that presses against a plate that presses against your reciever, displacing the pressure evenly.

ADM mounts use a superior design. Just because something was the best for a long time, doesn't mean it will be that way forever.

The "independent test" cited above is 5 years old, ADM has redesigned their mounts since then.

edited to add:

Sorry, but no one has ever been able to show me a demonstrable advantage for the Larue mount over an ADM mount. What does the extra $$$ buy?
Click to expand...

A name, a well earned reputation, and superior customer service.
 
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I only have experience with the Leupold VXIII, but I've been real happy with both. One is on an AK and the other is on a .458 Win Mag, and they have always held zero.
 
RatDrall said:
A name, a well earned reputation, and superior customer service.
Click to expand...
Reputation doesn't help me hit the target. Name doesn't either. If the quality is there, customer service is largely irrelevant and the CS rep isn't pulling the trigger either. I'm not saying that the Larue products are in any way inferior because we all know that they are a very good product, but at the same time, you can't point to any real *proof* that they provide something better than ADM, yet the answer (given it's usually coming from the fanboys) is something to the effect of "you know you want the Larue". If the price were the same between the Larue and the ADM, I'd flip a coin or base my decision on what was in stock; but the reality is that I can get the ADM mounts for considerably less money, I prefer the design and they are quality products. They get my money. Don't take this as me hating on Larue, I reserve my hate for Leupold.
 
Got it down to the following scopes...

Weaver
Nikon

Yes, I am very cost conscious. I've seen these $1500 scopes and see guys recommended them. Suppose people are in a different economic sphere than I or they really really value/need a super high quality scope.

I really like the price on these Weaver models. Getting an illuminated reticle magnified scope for less than $300 is very attractive to me.

Then I'd do with a decent mount and magpul backup rear sight.

Comments/opinions on these models?

WE849400.jpg

WE800702.jpg
opplanet-nikon-m223-kit.jpg

http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&brand=WE&prodID=WE849400&prodTitle=Weaver%20Classic%20V-3%201-3X20%20Riflescope%20Dual-X%20Reticle%20Matte

http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=WE800701&src=sim

http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=NK8485&src=exrbSrch
 
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You just missed out on getting the Monarch African (non-illuminated) from Natchez for less than $300. I got one and wish I'd gotten a second.
 
The Weaver classic 1-3x is a good scope. I had one on my 3 gun set up for a while, but the > 300 yard plates could be tough shootin. So, I put the weaver on my 15-22 and got a Nikon Monarch African 1-4x for 3 gun.

Both have great glass, great reticles, but the Nikon has better turrets. The weaver is a few ounces lighter.
 
I'll comment again. A backup iron sight is for the time when your primary optic fails and you need to transition rapidly to stay in the fight or in the stage if you're in a competition.

So if you get an optic mount that is not a quick release, then there's no reason to purchase a BUIS because you'll never use it, or your competition day is over and you may as well pack up right then. There's no such thing as fumbling with tools to remove a failed optic and staying in the game. BTW, this is only true for a scope and not for a red dot optic.

On the other hand, if the rifle is a range toy then the BUIS is just a nifty do-dad, so why not have one. Get the cheapest one with dual apertures. You're not likely to ever use it anyway. At the very least, buy one later when you feel you actually need it.
 
Comments on Weaver

I have had the basic Weaver Classis 1-3 on my .308 FNAR for a couple years now, and no complaints. It's a basic, no-frills scope, but good quality glass. It's also as nearly true 1x on the low end as any other scope I've looked at personally--I can definitely work close-in targets with both eyes open. The only one I would consider replacing it with is the illuminated Burris 1-4 XTR, but of course that's also a lot more money. I mounted my Weaver in Warne QD mounts, and they do a good job. I have another scope (a cheap, refurbished old Redfield 3-9) in another set of Warne QD rings for when I feel like stretching the rifle a bit, but out to about 300 yards the Weaver works fine...and that's exactly what I got it for. :)
 
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