Super Uber Powderpuff 9mm loads for Double Tap

[Snowdog]

I posted this on TFL as well, but since I'd like to get a few rounds out by tomorrow, I'll post here as well.

I have a coworker who won a Double Tap (deringer type) pistol in 9mm. He's not the biggest fan of recoil nor is his wife, possibly due to arthritis.
They had issues with the recoil using 115gr Winchester white box.

I reload for the 9mm and was wondering if I can help him out a bit by rolling a few light, yet safe rounds for punching paper at close range.

I've scoured the internet but have issues finding such a load. Since this handgun doesn't rely on a cycling slide to function, I'm hoping to find a load that will be energetic enough to reliably exit the barrel.

I have several thousand cases, but only a few types of bullets choose from.
On hand, I have 147gr Silvertips, 124gr Zero brand JHP, 124gr Golden Saber and 115gr plated round nose from Berry.
Of these, I plan to use Berry's 115gr plated RN.


The question is, what would be the lightest load of Bulleye or Win231 I can use with these plated bullets. The information I have so far is sketchy with some accounts saying 2gr of bulleye and others saying 2.5gr. These loads were intended for a revolver though and I don't have to worry about binding cylinders from primer setback. All it needs to do is reliably leave the barrel.

Seriously, 500-600fps isn't a problem... as long as it punches through paper, we're good. The backstop is a sodded dirt bank some distance away, so bounce-back isn't something I'm overly concerned with.

Thanks in advance!

 

[1SOW]

Go to a heavier bullt with a light load fast powder.
With what you have , the 147gr and bullseye loaded light.
The 124gr (hard to get) Zero or Golden Sabre with maybe 3.6/7grs of 231 should also work.
With this combo I might even try just few loaded even lighter.

If its the one that has two bbls about about 2.5"(?) long and hand fed, it would be hard to cause a squib;
But try one at a time and make sure the paper has a hole in it.
Bring a squib rod just in case

 

[Centurian22]

I think this could be a excellent application of Trailboss. IMR has instructions for load development in unstated cartridges here: http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Trail Boss Reduced Loads R&P.pdf

Should work with any bullet weight so try some of each. Hope this helps.

 

[Snowdog]

Thanks 1SOW. I do intend to warn him to check both bores when he extracts the cases to ensure they're clear.

The handgun you're thinking of it the one. I wasn't aware they made it in anything other than .45acp, but apparently they offer it in 9mm as well.

I remember that I have some 300+ rounds of Swedish plastic training ammo (the one tipped with the 5mm iron bb) laying around. I fired a few through a Kahr K9 several years ago before reading that the plastic bullet has been known to fracture in longer barrels, allowing that iron bb to bounce down the bore, causing "dents".

My K9's bore is still free of any dents, but I don't plan on shooting these any more. I've also read a couple places that they're ok from a deringer as the barrels are too short to matter. I also remember they had practically no recoil and seemed to have acceptable accuracy at the 7 yards I shot them at.

I might see if he wants to try a few after warning him of the whole dislodged bb issue.

 

[Snowdog]

Thanks Centurian22 for the link and heads-up. I'll check that out to see if it leads to anything I can use.

 

[sexybeast]

1sow nailed it: 3.5-3.7gr of 231 behind a 125gr lead or plated bullet.
3.5 will still function the action on my glock but not my M&P 9. For a deringer it would be perfect. It won't matter what case you use.

 

[hovercat]

Size, prime and use the case as a cookie cutter in a 3/8" thick sheet of wax. No powder needed.

 

[Walkalong]

For super light I would use a 115 or 125, since less bearing surface is easier to get out of the barrel 100% of the time with no problems. Lead is best as it is the slickest, followed by plated, and then jacketed, but lead is by far the best choice for super light loads. That coupled with a small charge of fast powder, Bullseye, Red Dot, N310, American Select, etc.

I am going to the range with my younger son here in a bit. I could try a couple of things.

Of these, I plan to use Berry's 115gr plated RN..................................what would be the lightest load of Bullseye or Win231 I can use with these plated bullets.

I have some Ranier 115 Gr RN bullets. I also have BE & W-231. I'll load up a few and report back. It should not be hard to get them out of a short barrel consistently, and you do not have to worry about cycling an action.

As posted, always check the bore, and keep a brass rod handy.

 

[Walkalong]

I loaded ten Ranier 115 Gr plated round nose bullets loaded to 1.133 to 1.135 OAL with a Winchester WSP standard small pistol primer. Five with 2.7 Grs of Bullseye and five with 3.0 Grs of W-231 (Old stock). Remember, OAL is going to be critical for the velocities. This bullet is an average .564 long, so use that, the OAL's, and the average length of your bullet to figure the depth of different bullet.

I'll report back after the range trip.

 

[Snowdog]

Awesome work, Walkalong! Thank you!

I also just loaded some light loads. I loaded the plated 115gr RN bullets over 2.5gr of Bullseye and even loaded a couple over 2gr of Bulleye for giggles. He knows to check the barrel before reloading and is fine with that.

I'll post the results here too.

 

[rodregier]

Just keep in mind that because of bore friction it's possible to "stick" a jacketed projectile with a loading that would pass a cast lead projectile. Plated is probably somewhere in between those in terms of bore friction.

 

[Walkalong]

Five shots each @ 75 Degrees and 22% humidity through the chrono at 5 yards using a 3" barreled EMP. (WSP primers)

2.7 Grs Bullseye and 115 Gr Ranier @ 1.135 OAL:

Hi=665...Lo=623...Avg=644...ES=42...SD=16


3.0 Grs W-231 and 115 Gr Ranier @ 1.135 OAL:

Hi=698...Lo=650...Avg=671...ES=48...SD=19


All shots left the hammer cocked, but the slide never moved enough to eject the case. I hand cycled the gun after each shot, ejecting the fired case and loading another round. Brass was actually pretty clean.

When working up a "low" load, I like to start high and work down, but I actually got a bit more velocity than expected.

Somewhere between 2.0 and 2.5 Grs Bullseye should get you in that 500 to 600 FPS range you mentioned, depending on OAL. 650ish FPS was pretty light, but not super light. The primer may make a small difference.

If I were going to try it again, I would try 2.3 Grs or so of Bullseye.

 

[eldon519]

You could get a 5lb sack of 000 buckshot balls and load those. Ought to be about 500 in there and they run around $25. Each ball is .36 cal and weighs 70 grs. They'll swage down just fine with the belled case mouth and have the least weight and bearing surface allowing for the lightest powder charges.

 

[Snowdog]

Good idea, eldon519. I bet those would be easy on recoil.

Walkalong, once again you've come through. Thanks for that info, it gives me a pretty good idea what he should expect in velocity. I must admit the 2gr Bullseye load makes me a bit nervous, but seeing that you're getting easily into the 600 FPS range makes me a bit more confident they'll work out.

I did have issues with the Lee auto disk powder charge bar I was using. It was throwing some very inconsistent charges that I had to add to or reduce. I'm guessing Bullseye doesn't like being used when one metes out such small amounts. I found myself wishing for some sort of trickle charger when loading these rounds.

 

[Walkalong]

You could get a 5lb sack of 000 buckshot balls and load those. Ought to be about 500 in there and they run around $25. Each ball is .36 cal and weighs 70 grs. They'll swage down just fine with the belled case mouth and have the least weight and bearing surface allowing for the lightest powder charges.

That's an outstanding idea.

 

[hovercat]

For the ultra light charges I use a dipper. Usually a .22 case with a loop of wire soldered on, filed down until it throws the right weight. The lee dippers can be filed or sanded down also.
I seat after charging each case to avoid double charges.

 

[NeuseRvrRat]

any reason he can't load some 90 or 95 grain bullets intended for .380 Auto?