Suppressed subsonic 22lr = suppressed subsonic .223???

[Roadwild17]

I have an idea and have done very little research into it yet, but thought I would run it by you guys.

With a subsonic round, you are limited in the velocity of the round. If that is true, what is the difference between a 68gr subsonic 22lr and a subsonic .223 of the 100 gr flavor?

Now I relieze the .223 will probably have a bit more energy, but when price is thrown into the mix, the 22lr really starts to shine.

Top of the head figures

.223

AR $900
Suppressor $600
Tax stamp $200
Ammo $37/20 rds
Total of $1737


.22lr
10/22 $300
Suppressor $250
Tax stamp $200
Ammo $ 6/50
Total $756


I know the numbers probably aren't the best, just top of my head and a really really quick check for some prices.

Not to mention, the .22lr will be shot a LOT more, and a rugger mark III would be a nice partner.

 

[power167]

Hmm...a 100 grain bullet traveling at the threshold of sound (1000 FPS) would give about 220 foot pounds of energy. A 68 grain bullet going at the same speed would give about 151 foot pounds. Both are lackluster from a stopping power perspective, but for plinking the .22lr would get the nod. The extra 70 ft.lb would make a difference in a defensive situation, but I don't know if I'd trust my life with either.

A 9mm 147 gr subsonic, by contrast, is running at over 320 ft/lb, which is around the minimum acceptable in a defensive situation. But then, the .45 ACP is king here, with over 500 ft/lbs. I believe you can get both in suppressible carbines.

Of course, I'm no expert on suppressed guns, nor am I up to date on subsonic ammo. I'm just calculating given bullet weights traveling at 1000 FPS.

 

[longdayjake]

I have yet to see a 100 grain bullet shot out of a .223. Not to say it cant be done, but I didn't even know they made them for .223 They would have to be like 2 inches long.

 

[Davandron]

I'm curious;

1.) Where can you get 68grain 22LR for $6/50?
2.) Doesn't that 10/22 need a new barrel to shoot 68gr bullets?

 

[rangerruck]

you cant get either, unless you make them; now then, the aguila sniper subsonic is 60 grain, giant chunk of solid lead, that has to be shot out of a
22 short round, the lead chunk is so long, it takes up the rest of the space of a long rifle round. So you need a rifle, that can really deal with the geometry of this round. either you need a special made bbl, that can handle the aguila, or you need a remington speedmaster, which not only can handle no probs, but will not keyhole the round at 50 yds.

 

[power167]

When you get down to 22LR power levels, you really need to practice shot placement....

... 22's are so much fun though, and I'd imagine a suppressed one would be even more enjoyable.

 

[swampshooter]

60 gr. aquila

The 60 gr. aquila feed fine in my 10-22. The length of the loaded round is what affects feeding and any blow back .22 will eject a short case. A faster twist would stabilize the longer bullet better. Maybe a 1 in 14.

 

[stevelyn]

I've shot the Aguilla 60 gr subsonics out of my 20" barrel Win M-290 w/o problems in accuracy or keyholing.

Out of my 6" barreled Browning Nomad, they not only keyhole and hit low on the target, but I suspect they exit the barrel doing cartwheels.

 

[kimber98]

I kill beef with a 22 short. I killed a moose with a 22 lr. Why do you need different???

 

[power167]

I'm sure you could drop a moose with a pellet rifle too, assuming good shot placement. It's just not as simple, nor as easy, when compared to, say, a 9mm, or a .45 ACP, or a .338 mag, etc etc. If all the OP is doing is shooting targets, then it doesn't really matter what he gets. But by the way he phrased things, it sounds like the gun may be used in a defensive situation. I don't know about you, but I want all the power I can get (within reason) if someone is coming at me with a loaded gun. Similarly, I sure as hell would never want a .22lr if moose or bovine were charging me.

 

[taliv]

have yet to see a 100 grain bullet shot out of a .223. Not to say it cant be done, but I didn't even know they made them for .223 They would have to be like 2 inches long.

i have thousands of them. they are about 1" long and they rock. B&T ammo labs did ballistic tests on them. I think the site is gone ,but you can find it in google cache. you can also search this forum for a half-dozen times I've mentioned it before.

edit: you do have to handload them though, and I do so at subsonic AND full power.

I shoot the aguila 60g SSS out of a ceiner kit in an AR so they are spun fast enough to stabilize. Also have a volquartsen barrel for 10/22 specifically chambered and twisted for the aguila 60g SSS. both are fun combinations with or without a suppressor.

Subsonics, even with 100g 223 won't cycle an AR. makes them all the more quiet, but don't expect to do mag dumps.

I mostly shoot paper and steel so I won't comment on the terminal effectiveness of either beyond the math, which someone already pointed out.


oh, and you NEED a 1/7 to spin those 100 grainers. A 1/8 will not do it.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

but when price is thrown into the mix, the 22lr really starts to shine.

Not to mention when you start adding up the ammo. Given your prices, 500rds of .22 subsonic will run $60 while the same amount of .223 will ding you $925.
I don't think you need the heavy aguila stuff if you are getting a can. I use CCI subsonic 40gr hollowpoints with a can and get great accuracy and reliable cycling out of a 16" 10/22.

 

[627PCFan]

Assuming you could find a .223 in that weight, I think you would run out of usable powders to keep it under the speed of sound, without running into detonation. Subsonic .223s are marginal at best with known loads. I wouldnt tempt fate.

+1 on the Aguilas, if you have the twist rate, they are great bullets-

 

[Roadwild17]

The 100gr .223 is Extreme Shock.

The gun isnt intended for serious SD would, but if I can get stopping power in a reliable gun and not have ringing ears/hearing damage I would definitely take it.

What Im looking for is mostly the ability to take out a few feral dogs/hogs without making a crap load of noise. Sure it might be kool to play James Bond and all (if I get a PPK), but Im also thinking about getting it while I can.

Is good ole .45 already subsonic?

 

[taliv]

jrspicer, that's crazy. There are plenty of safe loads. Where do you people come up with this stuff?

None of my 100g are in any way associated with extreme shock.

 

[power167]

Yup, the average .45 is already well under the subsonic threshold. I'm almost positive that 99% of .45 commercial loadings are under the barrier.

 

[Roadwild17]

What is the velocity a bullet need to be under in order to be subsonic?

Does bullet shape/size have an affect on this velocity?

 

[power167]

1,129 FPS is the threshold of sound, and you'd probably want to be under 1,100 (probably around 1000 fps) to account for variations between individual rounds. The shape of a bullet, for all intents and purposes, does not have an impact upon whether a bullet will pass the supersonic barrier. A square projectile can surpass the speed of sound, provided it's propelled with the right amount of energy.

That said, the lower the drag on the projectile (ie: the higher the ballistic coefficient), the less energy would be required to get a given round to a given speed.

 

[cliffy]

Depending on . . .

Altitude, barometric pressure, and other airborne factors, 1100 fps should remain subsonic. 1200 fps will break the sound barrier under most conditions. Muzzle blast alone may be EXREMELY loud even at subsonic speed.

 

[627PCFan]

taliv -find me any commercial published subsonic load for a 100 grain .223 round. There arent any for a good reason-