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Suppressors are now legal in Michigan

Discussion in 'NFA Firearms and Accessories' started by Shyster, Sep 5, 2011.

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  1. Shyster

    Shyster Member

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  2. l3uster

    l3uster Member

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    Any indication of prices, or is this something better held in PMs?
     
  3. 7.62 Nato

    7.62 Nato Member

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    Welcome to THR.

    Shyster is very active in the 2A and Shooting Communities in Michigan.
     
  4. Geno

    Geno Member

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    Just wanted to post in order to vouch for Shyster. I am going the way of the NFA Trust. He is professional, and committed. He answered all questions in a timely and very thorough manner.

    Welcome to THR, Shyster, and thank-you for reaching out to those of us interested in lawful possession and use NFA items.

    Geno
     
  5. Geno

    Geno Member

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    Thanks, Shyster, for keeping me fully up-to-date through the NFA Trust process. :cool:

    Geno
     
  6. Geno

    Geno Member

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    I stopped by to post that I just met in person with Shyster to sign the NFA Trust that he executed for me. He is very professional.

    Geno
     
  7. MrTactical

    MrTactical Member

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    Welcome Shyster, I will contact you.
     
  8. gearchecker

    gearchecker Member

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    Why a trust for a silencer

    I'm an out of stater but used to live there and have family in Michigan, so I'm curious.

    If silencers are legal in Michigan now, why go thru a trust?
    Why not just pay the Fed tax stamp ($200 IIRC) and buy the silencer on your own? Silencers aren't all that expensive after all.

    Regards,
    Gearchecker
     
  9. Shyster

    Shyster Member

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    If you are interested in purchasing a NFA device (machine gun or silencer) you should NEVER do so in an individual capacity but rather through a NFA Trust or a Corporation. The NFA Trust is the preferred vehicle since there are annual fees and reporting requirements for LLCs that are not associated with NFA Trusts. The following is an excellent explanation as to why one would wish to establish such a trust:


     
  10. Geno

    Geno Member

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    Shyster:

    Just an update per the e-mail you had sent me, and for the benefit of others.

    Michigan does not require that an NFA Trust be registered with the probate court. However, now I am to understand that the BATFE will require that all NFA Trusts be registered with the states' probate courts.

    There are others here in Michigan who want NFA Trusts, and this sounds as though it will be done across all states. For me personally, I elected to spend $400.00 for an NFA Trust precisely to avoid the local hassles and possible harassments of local "anti"s.

    Please explain further.

    Geno
     
  11. GoingQuiet

    GoingQuiet Member

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    I try not to speak in absolutes, but to say that one should NEVER individually purchase an NFA item individually is an issue up for debate. In many states (Michigan included) you will have people who prefer not to have a trust and prefer individual ownership.

    Also, your post is not correct as class 3 is a tax bracket and not an item. Anyone who is in the business of NFA should know the difference.
     
  12. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

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  13. Shyster

    Shyster Member

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    A couple of points

    First "never" is a strong term I realize but the advantages in owning NFA items through a Trust rather than as an individual are so great I feel comfortable in standing behind that statement.

    Second, the issue of trust registration is interesting. Under Michigan law an inter vivos trust need not be registered to be valid. Michigan law provides trust registration as an OPTION. However, I have been informed by a Class 3 dealer and his attorney that, since trust registration is available here the ATF examiner for Michigan is REQUIRING trust registration. I have been unable to confirm or deny this information as of yet so I am recommending that you have your trust registered to prevent any BATF delays in processing your Form 4.

    That being said, I have had several people elect to not register their trusts and see if they receive BATF approval. As soon as I learn whether they were successful I will post an update.

    A concern was voiced over reluctance to register trusts because of a desire to prevent local LEOs from learning that you posssess Class 3 devices. I would not be too concerned about this for a couple of reasons. First, it would require a clerk at the probate court to contact the police directly, the chance of which I deem remote to say the least. Second, the Trust is registered before an Class 3 devices are purchased and you do not notify the court of the Trust's inventory. All you are doing by registering the Trust is to put the court on notice that such a trust exists, not what is owned by it.

    Yes, I am still doing trusts for $400.00 if you are interested please contact me at NFATrust@makowskilegal.com to discuss further.

    EDIT: Yes, I know Class 3 is a tax bracket and not an actual device label. I was speaking in laymen's terms. It is much easier to say "Class 3 item" than refer to "devices regulated under the National Firearms Act requiring a $200.00 tax stamp."

    Always glad to see an appearance from the grammar police.
     
  14. GoingQuiet

    GoingQuiet Member

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    It is also wrong.
     
  15. rjrivero

    rjrivero Member

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    Title II firearm will suffice, Shyster.

    It has nothing to do with grammar, but rather using the correct terms. If I was in the market for an NFA specific trust, I would expect the attorney I hire to write that trust to be familiar with the NFA. That does include using the correct terminology for the actual firearms to be entered into the trust. (And yes, as defined by NFA 5320.8 Chapter 2, a silencer is considered a firearm.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2012
  16. RhinoDefense

    RhinoDefense Member

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    Title II or NFA firearm is the correct term, even a lawyer should know and use proper terms.
     
  17. JTW Jr.

    JTW Jr. Member

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    Never ? That is absurd. ( and sounds like someone who wants to make $$$ preparing trusts , might not be your intention , but that's my opinion ).

    I know of way more owners of NFA firearms that are on a form 4 to them and not to the trust.
     
  18. rjrivero

    rjrivero Member

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    There are benefits to Trusts for NFA items. The fact that the NFA item can be controlled by Trustees is a big one. Especially if you use a suppressor on your home defense firearm.

    CLEO sign offs aren't necessary for NFA Trusts. Not just for the person initially buying the item, but for those who inherit that item. Transfers to your children at the time of them inheriting the NFA Firearm can be as simple as using a Form 5, but if your children live in an area that has a non NFA friendly CLEO who won't sign one means that NFA Firearm stays in limbo.

    I do believe that NFA Firearms should ALWAYS be transferred to a Trust. But that's my opinion. (I'm not a lawyer, and I don't make money on Trusts.) The benefits outweigh the cost of setting up a trust, IMVHO.
     
  19. ATCDoktor

    ATCDoktor Member

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    This is nonsense, ATF Form 5's for individually owned NFA items do not require a CLEO's signature.

    No CLEO can deny those heirs that can legally posssess NFA items their inheritance.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2012
  20. rjrivero

    rjrivero Member

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    Thaks ATCDoctor. I assumed that since the Form 5 had the CLEO Signoff, it needed to be done. Didn't realize that it had a part of the form that isn't necessary. Appreciate that.
     
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