Surefire flashlights for defense?

[38snapcaps]

I am considering one of these for an alternative to drawing my CCW pistol.

The one I'm looking at is the Surfire E2D which has the crenellated bezel, the concept being you can blind an assailant or bash him with the sharp front edges of the light.

In reality, would this work? Could you really blind an attacker and get away instead of having to draw your weapon? You've all seen their magazine ads, what do you think?

 

[bad LT]

I really doubt the sharp edges on a light will stop an attacker any quicker than a standard bezel - just use a standard light as a kubotan. The technique involves clenching your fist around the light and bashing the metal ends into your target (hopefully the opponent's skull). Very devastating at short range.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Surefire likes to promote the notion that bright light is a form of effective defense. That is certainly not something to count on, especially if the bad guy has a gun. All he need do is shoot in the direction of the light and you are likely screwed. He doesn't have to see you to shoot at you.

The crenulated bezel is a faddish joke. It might cause a little more pain, but the points or edges are not long enough to penetrate very far.

With that, it would not be a great idea to attempt to blind your attacker with the light and then move in to brain him with the light's bezel. Why isn't this a great idea? Simple, if you move in to where you can strike him, he can strike you...and he may not be armed with only a light.

If you are in a situation that would warrant drawing your gun, then you should not be trying to stop the bad guy with light. Doing so could be a horrific experience for you. You can draw both or just draw your gun in such a situation, but drawing the light alone would be a very bad idea.

Try this. Buy a Surefire and then go into a darkened bathroom and light yourself up in the mirror. Are you really blinded to a point of incapacitation, put into a state of fear, or the like? I doubt it.

It is a light, not a light saber.

 

[RRTX]

In a dark or semi-dark room a Surefire, especially one with a 120+ lumen lamp, will blind someone to the point of seeing nothing but spots for a few seconds and causes deteriorated vision for several minutes afterwards. I know this from experience

 

[brokendreams]

So, you've never been pulled over and been hit by the cops flashlight and been in actual physical pain? I have. And I wasn't intoxicated in any way shape or form. a cop maglight is about 60 lumens.

The fact of the matter is... If you hit somebody in the eyes with an extremely bright light, you will hurt your subject. Maybe not permanently, but it will be enough for you to either get your drop on them, or actually diffuse the situation. Plus, natural reaction to bright light? Turn your head away.

I work in security and having my Flashlight is important as hell on vehicle approaches and the like. I can blind someone enough to make them drop whatever they have in there hands, and a small, bright, 100 lumen hit in the eyes will do it EVERY TIME. I don't care if you're on drugs, amped on adrenaline, or what.

My flashlight is my first defense, and it's usually my last (besides my cuffs).

 

[45R]

It is a light, not a light saber.

You obviously have not seen The Beast


2000 lumens of light!!!

 

[JShirley]

What BadLt and DoubleNaught said.

If you have the range to use your sidearm, do so, if you are indeed facing a potentially lethal threat, and do not have good alternatives.

If you do not have the range to use your sidearm, move to where you are clear to do so. Striking the attacker at this point (as you clear your "bubble") may be appropriate- and if you have something to hit him with, so much the better.

The nasty fang-faced flesh-shredding tactical Cuisinart bezel tip is one of the silliest ideas I have ever seen, from a company that typically offers good- many would say extraordinary- products. Use the products, but "don't believe the hype".

John

 

[Dirty Bob]

Ditto

I was disappointed to see SureFire putting out the "strike bezels." I look on those as marketing hype, and a bad idea. I've heard from others that they're rougher on clothing than the regular lights, and don't try to take one on an airliner. I think I'll stick to regular lights like the 6P, which I strongly suspect would work just about as well, for a lower price, and can be carried on an airplane without fear of confiscation.

Even sillier, by the way, was a similar device for the muzzle of an autopistol, allowing it to be used as a striking weapon!

Regards,
Dirty Bob

P.T. Barnum was right.

 

[Mulliga]

I have the E2D.

It's got some advantages over the E2, in that you can stand it on its end and have light go upwards onto the ceiling, illuminating an entire room. The endcap also helps to prevent accidental activation. Also, the slots cut in the bezel mean that you can detect if it's accidentally lit when the bezel is down. It is a little harder on your clothes, but not significantly worse than other hard-anodized aluminum torches.

As far as a striking weapon, it's a joke (doesn't weigh very much and it isn't very dense), but it's a durable flashlight nonetheless.

 

[Sir Aardvark]

Flashing a bright light into someone's eyes at night WILL temporarily blind them. A BRIGHT light can cause pain.

If you have just blinded your opponent, you have gained the upper hand, and have taken command of the situation.

You then have the option to do with the extra time you have gained as you please: you can run away real quick; you can kick the bad guy in the crotch (remember, he's holding his blinded eyes), then run away real quick; spray him in the face with pepper spray; chain him to your bumper, and then drive off - - just kidding. Pretty much you gain more options.

Of course, I can bravely say all of the above because I have the additional option of pulling out my CCW handgun and further enforcing my commands. My point in using the flashlight is that it is alot better than drawing your weapon, because once you draw it may be difficult to de-escalate the situation from there.

 

[MassHunter2190]

2,000 lumens of light? Is that a lot or something? Sorry for my stupidity, but how many candle power would that be?

 

[Sir Aardvark]

Mass -

65 lumens is what a normal Surefire E2 has.; The Super-Bright option has 120 lumens - it is pretty bright!.

2,000 lumens is a bit overkill and is useful for cooking a grilled cheese sandwich out in the field, or for working on your tan.

Surefire weapon lights, like the ones SWAT teams use are about 225-350 lumens.

Sorry, I don't have handy the conversion into candlepower, but I think that one lumen is equal to one candela, but don't quote me on this, as I might be speaking out of my a$$. I'm certain someone here will set us all straight.

 

[brokendreams]

If I remember correctly... 3500 candlepower is roughly equivalent to 40 lumens.


Lumens is the actual intensity of light, candlepower is just the amount.


basically... 2000 lumens will produce heat on your arm from about.... I'm gonna say 3-4 feet away. If shined in someones eyes, they will be SERIOUSLY impared for a SUBSTANTIAL amount of time. Long enough to get a cup of water, draw, decide to shoot, and aim dead center forehead. And get over the jitters to do so.


I carry the L2 and it has a variable output of 100 lumens for 60 minutes, and 15 lumens for 18 hours. I love it. I can hit our suspects in the eyes and they will comply. It hurts.



Also, about the bezel. Yes, it's a gimmick...BUT.... here in california we cannot carry a weapon and every bit helps. If you can get close and use the light as a kubotan, the bezel MIGHT add that little tiny slight bit of help, espicially in the temple or neck. But, a normal bezel will work just as well 99 percent of the time, if you use it as such.

 

[Kevlarman]

Believe me, a bright light will daze/startle someone, even if for an instant if can give you an advantage. Run away, give you time to attack, etc.

My Surefire L4 is only 65 lumens, but a 1/2 second blast is even for me to be seeing spots for a couple minutes afterwards.

Say you wake up in the middle of the night to a BG crawling through your window; a bright light in the face oughta disorient him!

 

[JShirley]

I see using light as analogous to trusting pain to force compliance: sure, it may work, but breaking the chassis or draining the hydraulics are more certain.

John

 

[brokendreams]

I agree with you on general principle. However, compliance may just be "step out of the vehicle" if they don't, that light can help (or at least make them pissed so I can take them down physically).

Both arguments are valid, but it depends on the situation.

O.C and Tasers do NOT work on everybody. A blinding light will work 99 percent of the time on EVERYBODY (druggies, really pissed people,the biggest, the baddest, and the ugliest) except blind people, and I suspect they may have sensitivity to light as well, at least some. deploying a light looks innocent and does not have to be used in force. You can make somebody back down, you can hold it away from your body so as to not give the BG a target, and it may give you time to escape or defend.

Use it if you have it. Not doing so is like not using the 9mm you have because you want the shotgun at home.

 

[doc jake]

It is all right for you collonial gentalmen to argue about which weapon is better than a flash light. But please remember that some of us have to live and work in countrys were you can not use harsh language on the bad guys. A small light while not perfect is better than nothing. Not shure if the new surefire would be legal in the United Kingdom.

 

[pax]

Those crenulated bezels aren't much better while fighting than the plain ones, but they do function very well as DNA evidence collectors.

pax

 

[Navy joe]

I wouldn't trust bright light as a force option, but then again I don't trust pepper spray, my size 12 boot, guard geese, or one shot from a pistol to be a force option that will stop any conflict. Light is a good tool, I will try it if I have the time and need to try to avoid shooting someone, or see who I am shooting.

My anecdotal data point is this. I went outside to check on someone at the corner of my garage. Pistol was holstered, light was in hand. From about 10 feet across a fence I hit him square in the eyes with my light, a Surefire M-3 at 250 lumens. He cringed, turned away, and covered his face. I'd chalk it up to over-acting except he turned 3 complete revolutions before he mustered enough common sense to stop peeing and re-tuck his junk. Really confused him when I was nice to him, while I normally don't like folks peeing on my lawn it's better than breaking into my garage. Everytime I shine that light in someone's eyes they immediately turn away and cover their face. Works good enough that I would try it, given the time.

 

[brokendreams]

Great anecdote, and exactly what I encounter about every time I use the light I have.

 

[DDGator]

One problem with the E2D is that the crenulations on the switch end make it more difficult (to me) to operate the switch. I makes certain flashlight holds -- like, ironically, the Rodgers/Surefire hold - very difficult. Try it before you buy it to make sure it fits you.

This comment, however, is not a knock on SureFire or their excellent products.

 

[Kevlarman]

Great anecdote, and exactly what I encounter about every time I use the light I have.

You catch peopple peeing on your garage?

 

[MikeIsaj]

Don't bring a flashlight to a gunfight.

 

[runswithscissors]

Here is an easy solution

Put the flashlight on the gun...

 

[Estela216]

I heard from a Surefire representative that the scalloped bezel was created in response to complaints from customers that regular bezels, when placed on end standing up, show no light through the bottom. With the scallops, the light can emit and let the user know the light is on to avoid draining battery power.