Surprising fact: Half of gun deaths are suicides
- Thread starter rainbowbob
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rainbowbob
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Why are they are comparing American gun deaths with Japanese suicides (presumably by means not confined to guns)?
[EDIT] Hey I just realized (two days later) this was my 1,000th post! Do I get a cake or anything?
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Sistema1927
Member
Anecdotal, but here is my experience:
During a 5 year period I served as a Police Chaplain. To my recollection I attended seven suicide scenes.
2 were OD.
2 were hanging.
3 were gun shot, 2 to the head. One of the head shots, with a .22 was very, very messy. The other head shot, with a Glock in .45 ACP drilled a neat clean hole in and out with very little blood loss. It appears that the .45 was an instant kill, the guy with the .22 must have spurted blood all over the room. The chest shot (caliber unknown to me) died later at the hospital after about 4 hours.
During a 5 year period I served as a Police Chaplain. To my recollection I attended seven suicide scenes.
2 were OD.
2 were hanging.
3 were gun shot, 2 to the head. One of the head shots, with a .22 was very, very messy. The other head shot, with a Glock in .45 ACP drilled a neat clean hole in and out with very little blood loss. It appears that the .45 was an instant kill, the guy with the .22 must have spurted blood all over the room. The chest shot (caliber unknown to me) died later at the hospital after about 4 hours.
Private ownership of handguns is virtually nonexistent in Japan. Yet their male suicide rate is twice that of the USA, and their female suicide rate is over three times that of the USA.
The lack of privately owned handguns in Japan isn't impeding their ability to kill themselves at all. Yet another liberal myth bites the dust.
Suicide Rates Per 100,000 People (Source: World Health Organization)
Japan (2004, most recent year available)
Males: 35.6
Females: 12.8
USA (2002, most recent year available)
Males: 17.9
Females: 4.2
The lack of privately owned handguns in Japan isn't impeding their ability to kill themselves at all. Yet another liberal myth bites the dust.
Suicide Rates Per 100,000 People (Source: World Health Organization)
Japan (2004, most recent year available)
Males: 35.6
Females: 12.8
USA (2002, most recent year available)
Males: 17.9
Females: 4.2
bogie
Member
Okayfine... Let's say that 20,000 firearms owners cap themselves.
(of course, this doesn't include the folks who go to rental ranges - sigh...)
There are how many million firearms owners?
The number we're talking about is essentially anecdotal... not outside the statistical noise.
A gun owner isn't more likely to kill themselves - they may be more likely to choose an efficient method... How many suicides involve pills? Automobiles? Razor blades, bad fashion sense and horrid music?
How many people in the US own guns? A hundred million?
1% is a million.
A hundred thousand is 0.1%
20,000 is 0.02%.
And everyone gotta die from something... Some folks may feel that Hemingway had a good idea...
(of course, this doesn't include the folks who go to rental ranges - sigh...)
There are how many million firearms owners?
The number we're talking about is essentially anecdotal... not outside the statistical noise.
A gun owner isn't more likely to kill themselves - they may be more likely to choose an efficient method... How many suicides involve pills? Automobiles? Razor blades, bad fashion sense and horrid music?
How many people in the US own guns? A hundred million?
1% is a million.
A hundred thousand is 0.1%
20,000 is 0.02%.
And everyone gotta die from something... Some folks may feel that Hemingway had a good idea...
Not as much a gun issue as it is a health care issue.
Guns don't cause people to kill themselves. Usually it is a brain chemical imbalance that causes people to kill themselves.
Better access to mental health care would help this and many other problems in society.
1st post, glad to be here.
Guns don't cause people to kill themselves. Usually it is a brain chemical imbalance that causes people to kill themselves.
Better access to mental health care would help this and many other problems in society.
1st post, glad to be here.
rainbowbob
Member
I agree with you on that. Better access to mental health care would also likely reduce the number of homicides and other incidents of violence committed by persons suffering from untreated psychotic illnesses.
Welcome to THR!
Vern Humphrey
Member
That "study" was refuted long ago. The flaw was they took suicides or homicides and worked backward. Yes, most people who committed suicide or were shot came from homes with guns.
They did not take a random sample of the population and work forward, comparing homes with guns to homes without to see if one or the other was most likely to produce a homicide or suicide.
Gunnerpalace
Member
Question
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If they are against guns because people will off themselves, why are the for Euthanasia?
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If they are against guns because people will off themselves, why are the for Euthanasia?
rainbowbob
Member
That is very interesting. I guess I had assumed they would have at least employed a study design that was most likely to produce an unbiased conclusion. Silly me!
Vern Humphrey
Member
Silly you.
They're like Bullsh*t Belisles, who made up records to "prove" that people back in the old days didn't have guns.
He was so blatant that even the other anti-gun people couldn't stomach it.
Vern Humphrey
Member
I'd like to bring up one more point -- if a man wants to kill himself so badly that he puts a gun to his head and pulls the trigger, the absense of a gun won't stop him. After all, people were committing suicide for thousands of years before the Chinese invented gunpowder.
The suicide statistics are thrown in to inflate the "gun violence" numbers.
The suicide statistics are thrown in to inflate the "gun violence" numbers.
rainbowbob
Member
Who he?
Vern Humphrey
Member
Bullsh*t Belisles wrote a book called The Arming of America. He "proved" there were few guns in America by citing data from wills and so on. He won several prizes for the book.
Then someone noticed he had cited wills from San Francisco -- and all those documents burned in the earthquake and fire of 1906.
Futher research showed he used other false records, ignored real data, and so on. Most of his prizes were revoked.
Then someone noticed he had cited wills from San Francisco -- and all those documents burned in the earthquake and fire of 1906.
Futher research showed he used other false records, ignored real data, and so on. Most of his prizes were revoked.
rainbowbob
Member
Is the motivation for this stuff money? Or do they believe the ends justify the means (i.e., They will do whatever it takes - including lie - to "solve" the problem of violence in America)?
Vern Humphrey
Member
Both -- although they have no intention of solving any problems. They want power.
Is a bullet to head more effective way to end life than:
1. Pills : No
2. Cutting your wrists : No
3. Jumping off a bridge : Arguably, yes.
Does it matter? Of course not. The 2nd amendment can't be scrapped on account of small minority that want to kill themselves.
By the same argument, the 6 amendment should not be circumvented by silly misnomers like enemy combatants. I digressed but could not resist the parallel.
1. Pills : No
2. Cutting your wrists : No
3. Jumping off a bridge : Arguably, yes.
Does it matter? Of course not. The 2nd amendment can't be scrapped on account of small minority that want to kill themselves.
By the same argument, the 6 amendment should not be circumvented by silly misnomers like enemy combatants. I digressed but could not resist the parallel.
bdgackle
Member
Seems to me that suicide is an excellent argument FOR owning guns. I'm not being sarcastic here.
I watched my grandmother slowly die of lung cancer, basically spent the last two or three weeks of her life begging to die. Doctors saying there was nearly a 100% chance she would not survive the month, but holding levels of pain killers to "safe" levels, so as not to kill her (and not relieving the pain either).
Our society, and our medical establishment in particular, have a very unhealthy denial of the fact that sooner or later, we are all going to die.
I may get cancer some day. Thanks to the closet full of firearms, I'm pretty sure that I will NEVER die of it. There are some things I'm not willing to live through, especially when there is no hope of recovery. Until our society gives ME the choice to do what I want to with MY life, I guess I will hold on to the most humane method of euthanasia that I have available to me.
I watched my grandmother slowly die of lung cancer, basically spent the last two or three weeks of her life begging to die. Doctors saying there was nearly a 100% chance she would not survive the month, but holding levels of pain killers to "safe" levels, so as not to kill her (and not relieving the pain either).
Our society, and our medical establishment in particular, have a very unhealthy denial of the fact that sooner or later, we are all going to die.
I may get cancer some day. Thanks to the closet full of firearms, I'm pretty sure that I will NEVER die of it. There are some things I'm not willing to live through, especially when there is no hope of recovery. Until our society gives ME the choice to do what I want to with MY life, I guess I will hold on to the most humane method of euthanasia that I have available to me.
JackBurtonJr
Member
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Here's the reference we need to combat this kind of nonsense.
http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?id=1616
You can find that ref and many, many more good ones at:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Answers-for-those-who-think-that-gun-control-is-the-best-for-America
Please feel free to take what you need.
http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?id=1616
You can find that ref and many, many more good ones at:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Answers-for-those-who-think-that-gun-control-is-the-best-for-America
Please feel free to take what you need.
sprithitler
Member
Here in sweden we have nine million residents and roughly 1500 succesful suicides each year, roughly 1000 of which are men. we have roughly 34 legal firearms per 100 citizens, the overwhelming majority of which are rifles or shotguns. I havent seen statistics of suicides by method, though i guess there must be such statistics to be found.
oh, yeah, and out of the four men i have known who have commited suicide, one choose carbon monoxide poisoning, one tied himself in a sack with some big stones and rolled into a lake to drown himself, one hung himself and one i only know that he commited suicide, he may have shot himself, though i would say that he is more likely to have OD:ed or hung himself.
The Absense of Guns dont result in an absense of suicides. Oh, yeah, and no women i have known have commited suicide, some have called for help by cutting their wrists or eating unhealthy amounts of pills, but they didnt commit suicide. The point here is that you can succesfully commit suicide on the first attempt without guns, if you really do feel that you dont have a good enough reason to live.
Looking for a common denominator in suicides i would say that being male is more significant in making you commit suicide than being a gunowner is, or that having a paricular lastname (since three of the four men i have known who commited suicide had the same last name, though they were from two different families.) is also a bigger common factor in your risk of commiting suicide then gunownership
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Vern Humphrey
Member
So basically suicides are lumped in with homicides to make firearms look more dangerous and deadly.
Note also that these data are compared with other countries who do not lump suicides in. And some countries -- Japan, for example -- have strange rules. A man who kills his whole family in Japan, and then kills himself is not counted as a murderer. All the deaths are officially labeled "suicide."
Britian keeps tabs on "murder," not homicide. A homicide doesn't become a murder until someone is convicted.
Note also that these data are compared with other countries who do not lump suicides in. And some countries -- Japan, for example -- have strange rules. A man who kills his whole family in Japan, and then kills himself is not counted as a murderer. All the deaths are officially labeled "suicide."
Britian keeps tabs on "murder," not homicide. A homicide doesn't become a murder until someone is convicted.
La Pistoletta
Member
Note that this is also far from 34 out of 100 citizens owning guns. Those weapons are concentrated to a few owners with multiple guns.
rainbowbob
Member
JackBurtonJr:
Thank you very much for the link to the following article. It is a powerful and impassioned and logical essay from someone who has been there. I urge everyone interested in this subject to read it. I have included the title and author's name along with a statement from the conclusion.
Thank you very much for the link to the following article. It is a powerful and impassioned and logical essay from someone who has been there. I urge everyone interested in this subject to read it. I have included the title and author's name along with a statement from the conclusion.
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