SWAT Teams Gone wild, two wrongful raids inthree days!!

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Radley Balko

If you aren't reading www.theagitator.com about this kind of thing, and specifically the Cory Maye case, you are uninformed.

Radley just had a link about SWAT training...and of course the LEOs all talked about how much FUN it was.

I'm sure it IS fun....if you don't give a damn about the BOR and innocent citizens.

I've know a guy who got swatted a few years ago. No arrests. Turns out his neighbor, the Federal Prosecutor sent them. He wants to buy the 27 acres the guy sits on. The guy still hasn't gotten his 15 or so rifles back from the BATFE, nor would anyone show him a warrant where it said who sent them or who or what they were looking for, nor will anyone take responsibility for any repairs to the house.

After more "conversations" the guy SOLD half his land to the Federal Prosecutor for LESS than the appraisal districts valuation.

He's lucky he wasn't killed. He and his wife were held at gunpoint, stripped naked, photographed. Then left behind.

Very unusual stuff, all around, but I am sure it was FUN for the SWAT team.
 
DRRMR02 two points

Fully automatic firearms are already legal.

Bank robbers can already buy automatic weapons of off the black market it's not like they are worried about the law.
 
If you aren't reading www.theagitator.com about this kind of thing, and specifically the Cory Maye case, you are uninformed.

Radley just had a link about SWAT training...and of course the LEOs all talked about how much FUN it was.

I'm sure it IS fun....if you don't give a damn about the BOR and innocent citizens.

I've know a guy who got swatted a few years ago. No arrests. Turns out his neighbor, the Federal Prosecutor sent them. He wants to buy the 27 acres the guy sits on. The guy still hasn't gotten his 15 or so rifles back from the BATFE, nor would anyone show him a warrant where it said who sent them or who or what they were looking for, nor will anyone take responsibility for any repairs to the house.

After more "conversations" the guy SOLD half his land to the Federal Prosecutor for LESS than the appraisal districts valuation.

He's lucky he wasn't killed. He and his wife were held at gunpoint, stripped naked, photographed. Then left behind.

Very unusual stuff, all around, but I am sure it was FUN for the SWAT team.

Not to sound rude, but what point are you trying to make?
 
What ever happened to a good old fashioned stake out? Or a daylight knock on the door.

Our homes are not the place to practice SWAT procedures.
 
Not to sound rude, but what point are you trying to make?
While not answering for the original posting member, I'd opine this... You or I can make/file a complaint, which may or may not be legitimate, against a neighbor, an enemy, a former friend now turned foe, or someone you THINK was the bank robber in question, only to have the local SWAT team THOR's Hammer fall down upon another you've chosen to subject to a few days of living hell... oh, maybe some good entertainment and practice for the SWAT team (as long as everyone goes home safe), but of course, putting yourself in the shoes of the innocent person(s) here.

Granted, you're going to have to get a judically robed wizard to sign off on a warrant making it all okey dokey, but, the ability to abuse a tool, in the wrong hands, is present. Much the same as we all say about responsible firearms ownership. It can, will be and has been misused in incompetant or unlawful hands.

A couple of people who come forward to state and are willing to swear that DRMMRO2 has machine guns, a meth lab in his basement and kiddie pron on his computer... might be all it takes to ruin your life forever, especially since the original complaintants were lying out their teeth (or were at least incorrect). True?

Honest mistakes could still ruin an innocent person's life.
 
Let's put all the SWAT teams on the BORDER!

It's ridiculous that law abiding citizens have to endure this, but the Border Patrol is not even supposed to chase illegals who have crossed border.
 
Let's put all the SWAT teams on the BORDER!
Sounds good to me. If some citizens wish to be JBT, let them be JBT defending the sovereign territory of the nation.

Making an honest mistake on an address I can understand. Following training in the heat of the moment I can understand. Failing to apologize and make whole those whom you've injured as a result of your error? That is simply intolerable. :mad:
 
"Making an honest mistake on an address I can understand. Following training in the heat of the moment I can understand. Failing to apologize and make whole those whom you've injured as a result of your error? That is simply intolerable. "

+1 It makes the department look like a flaming sack of crap. If the police want to know why some otherwise good citizens think nothing of them they just have to remember incidents like these.
 
"The warrant was for him,” Oldham said. “We did not get the wrong guy. We entered the house by our standard operating procedure taking into consideration the safety of the home’s occupants as well as the safety of the officers entering as our No. 1 priority.”


I think the question we need to ask ourselves is when did "standard operating procedure" become an acceptable alternative to the Constitution? Obviously, Corporal Oldham believes it to be or he wouldn't use it to substantiate the excessive use of force.

Oh, and as far as those who think regular cops shouldn't be used to serve warrants in most cases because there are dangerous drug dealers who sometimes get served warrants, that is a non sequitur argument and you know it. Where are the drug dealers in these scenarios?
 
I'm 44 years old and an Army vet and I have to say my opinion on these things has changed over the years. I think the average "beat cop" should be armed with whatever would be the level of force of the civilians in that area. Which means a Glock or a revolver. A shotgun in the patrol car. The shift supervisor can have some kind of high powered hunting rifle in his car. Nobody outside of SWAT should be armed with any kind of gear that the local civilians can't go down to the gun store and buy as well. Whether that means AP rounds or full auto. The police are supposed to be "one of us" not a bunch of military occupation troops.

SWAT seems to me to be a good idea which has somehow mutated into a bad one. SWAT was supposed to be a very special team for very special circumstances. You have Columbine underway, you are very happy you have a trained SWAT team. But it is supposed to be that type of "blue moon" event. Not just every time there seems to be a statistical chance that violence could become involved.

Gregg
 
SWAT seems to me to be a good idea which has somehow mutated into a bad one. SWAT was supposed to be a very special team for very special circumstances. You have Columbine underway, you are very happy you have a trained SWAT team.

...to stand around and wait for the danger to be over.
 
Oldham said troopers had a legal right to be there.

Who pays for the damage sustained remains a question under investigation, he said.


How long do you suppose it's gonna take them to "investigate", and discover who is responsible for the damage?

That's my biggest gripe. Their mistakes cost real people real money.

I've never read a statement from any LEO saying "Yep. We screwed the pooch, and we're gonna lay to make it right." Instead, you just get noncommital sound bites from some PR flack, and the victims that got their security violated and their homes wrecked are told they're lucky that they're not in jail. When did police agencies get the authority to threaten people with jail for being innocent victims of their own heavy-handed tactics? (And I'm not speaking hypothetically here... I've been threatened with jail for asking why I was stopped during a traffic stop. Heck, I was even threatened with jail once for sitting on a friggin' bus bench!)
 
Apology form Colonal MacLeash

State police offer apologies to two in mistaken arrests
By TERRI SANGINITI, The News Journal

Posted Friday, September 29, 2006


This man is being sought in two recent bank robberies.
Joanne Bateson's house remains in disarray from the state police raid on her home last week. Shards of glass from a sliding door litter the ground outside.

Thursday evening, a week and a day after a state police SWAT team raided her home and arrested her son for a bank robbery investigators later determined he did not commit, the Angola woman received a phone call from state police Col. Thomas MacLeish, who apologized.

His agency was executing a warrant for Dover police, in whose jurisdiction the robbery occurred.

A night earlier, MacLeish called Teri Pruitt and offered her a formal apology for the arrest of her son Monday night in a bank robbery last week in Bear.

Police believe the same person -- a husky man wearing a white plaid shirt and a white cap -- committed both robberies. But after arresting Bill Pruitt and Bateson's son, Brock Charles, police found neither of them to be the robber.

"I realize what they have undergone has not been a pleasant experience for them," MacLeish said after talking to the families.

He told Bateson that the state would pick up the tab for the broken kitchen door, she said.

"It's a mistake and we're going to make up for it," he said Thursday.

MacLeish said both warrants were executed in good faith.

In both cases, the wrong man was identified: first by the public who tipped off police to the bank robber's identity, and then by the victimized bank tellers, who each identified the suspect from a photo array.

Pruitt, 25, of the 600 block of Huckleberry Ave. in Bear, was picked up Monday in the Sept. 22 heist of Citizens Bank, 146 Fox Hunt Drive in Bear.

Charles, 22, of the 32000 block of Ashwood Drive in Lewes, was arrested Sept. 20 in a holdup the day before at the Wilmington Trust Bank on Walker Road in Dover. He was jailed at the Delaware Correctional Center and released Sept. 21 after his mother posted $10,000 cash bail.

Dover police dropped the charges against him the next day -- the same day the white-capped bandit struck in Bear -- because his cell phone records verified he was on a construction job in Lewes when the Dover bank was robbed.

"We know these guys are innocent of the bank robbery because of their alibi," Widener Law Professor Jules Epstein said. "Imagine if that guy didn't have the cell phone that day. Where would he be now? These guys are luckier than other victims of mistaken identification because they had a really good alibi."

The scariest thing, Epstein said, is even if the two had not had alibis, they would have been just as innocent.

Technically, legally and constitutionally, the police followed the law. But some percentage of eyewitnesses always make mistakes, he said.

"How big is the problem, I can't say," Epstein said. "But it's a recurring problem."

MacLeish said state police have encountered such situations before.

"This is the first time I'm aware of it occurring on my watch, and it will always be made right," he said.

MacLeish said in the Pruitt case, the detective used the witness identification to get a probable cause warrant, which was approved by a judge and executed by troopers.

But when Pruitt said he had an alibi for an attempted robbery Monday at the PNC Bank in Talleyville, committed by the same white-capped bandit involved in the other robberies, the detective asked that he be freed on bail pending further investigation.

"If that victim had not picked him out, he would not have been arrested," MacLeish said of Pruitt. "We know that people can be mistaken."

Teri Pruitt said she demanded MacLeish expunge her son's bank robbery record, and the colonel said he would move as quickly as possible to do so.

Bateson, however, will have to turn to Dover police, who obtained the arrest warrant for her son.

"My son has been flashed all over the [TV] screen that he's a robber," the angry mother said. "I asked him about the record being expunged, and he referred me to the Dover police who swore out the warrant. But the state police are the ones that sent this crap into my home. They took it upon themselves to come into my house smashing the door."

Pruitt said she accepted MacLeish's apology because she knew he had a job to do. But words can't make up for the embarrassment she and her son have experienced, she said.

"I asked him if he knew how it feels to walk out your door and have to hang your head in embarrassment," she said. "I'm a brand new neighbor here and your first impression is a lasting impression that never goes away.

"My son's a good-hearted person, and what's he's done in his life, he's paid his dues," Pruitt said. "But he doesn't deserve to be called a bank robber."
 
Dover police dropped the charges against him the next day -- the same day the white-capped bandit struck in Bear -- because his cell phone records verified he was on a construction job in Lewes when the Dover bank was robbed.

"We know these guys are innocent of the bank robbery because of their alibi," Widener Law Professor Jules Epstein said. "Imagine if that guy didn't have the cell phone that day. Where would he be now? These guys are luckier than other victims of mistaken identification because they had a really good alibi."

Sidelight on technology...your cell phone is now gps enabled; the network can be probed to establish your location retroactively. In this case, it helped exclude the robbery suspect. Sometimes we hear of cases where a 911 caller goes unconscious and is located via cell phone.

I recently got a call from Nextel customer service, asking "are you satisfied?" I said OK, except for occasionally folks can't get through when calling me (goes to voice mail). She asked if I ever turned off the phone. I said no, I just leave it on for recharging. So, she says the problem is that the system has "ghosts" of your location at different cell towers, which are only erased when you turn your phone off. Sometimes these ghosts confuse the system, resulting in failed calls. Turning the phone off erases these ghosts, may improve service.

I know we have some techno-geeks on this forum; I'd love to know more about the locating capabilities of cell systems.

How long before a criminal relies on the cell phone/gps alibi to his advantage? As the capability becomes more widely known, its power might be diminished.:eek:
 
I can understand large cities having SWAT or Emergency Services teams, but now, it appears every podunk little hamlet has one. I was at a public range last weekend and some Sheriff's Deputy was playing Mr. Commando with his MP-5. He was a nice fellow, but does my little town need some government guys in black suits with way-out weaponry and a possible "macho-problem." I don't know.
 
Now color me old fashioned, but in the old days two policemen might have gone to the suspects door, and knocked, brought him in and discovered that he had an alibi. Especially since neither of these men had a record of violence or crime, and the robber didnt even display a firearm. That was in the old protect and serve days, now we are in the new improved SWAT Paramilitary force days.

This is the first thought that entered my head as I was reading the story. IMHO, because PD's have spent the time and money to develop a SWAT unit, they feel pressure to use them, even if the circumstances don't require that type of response.
 
i remember

a post from a guy her who is/was a bona fide SWAT operator.

his best "get the bad guy" story was when they tricked him into coming out onto the front porch to yell at his barking dogs (whom they had been heckling with acorns tossed over the wall), then dog piled him.

wouldn't it have made more sense to stake out the house to prevent him from dissapearing, but then simply nab him on the way to work or at work?

why the need for all the window smashing, paratroopers through the walls action hero bit?

heck, they probably could have knocked on the door and told them that UPS has a package for a mr. whatever.
 
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