Sweet photo!! Cougar about to pounce on deer

[DigMe]

My mom just sent me an email with the two attached photos. I don't know if it's legit or not. If it is then it's a pretty freak thing to get such a picture...I guess that's all the more reason for it not to be legit. You be the judge. First I'll post the email that came with it followed by the pics:

>
> > A friend of mine sent these to me. They were taken by a friend of his
> deer between Woodville & Livingston <digme's note - both are small towns in East Texas>
> > cam-see his note below.
> >
> >
> >
> > check this out, these photos were taken from a guys deer cam at his
> feeder.
> > notice the time diffence in the pics....the cougar is back to make another
> > kill....i guess you don't have to be a human hunter to hunt a feeder.

My mother is the source of some interesting hunter pics. Remember this one?

It's because she has a lot of friends that are hunters or that work on busy hunting leases in east Texas and they know our family are hunters too.

brad cook

 

[Art Eatman]

For whatever reason, deer aren't nearly as cautious and spooky at night as during the daytime. They sure don't react to sound nearly as quickly.

Cougars are really, really quiet.

Typically, after a kill a cougar will eat some of the paunch and/or liver and such. They stash the rest of the carcass nearby, and cover it with whatever sort of brush is available. They'll come back on a day by day basis as the rest of the meat softens. (Dunno when they quit on account of stinky meat.)

After the first feeding and the stashing, they hang around to protect their cache. So, I'm not surprised the cat would wander past and be photographed a second time...

Art

 

[Mr. Chitlin]

These are going around the net right now. I have heard Oregon, AZ, and other states, now Eaast Texas. One thing to note, look at the tail. Does East Texas have mule deer or blacktails? That doesn't look like a white tail deer tail. I am not real sure of the difference in the tails for mulies and blacktails.

Still, it is an interesting picture, if it is ral.

 

[H&Hhunter]

If it's a fake it's a darn good one!!

I see no reason to see why it would be faked as it looks like perfectly normal predator prey activity.

But it is the internet I guess..

 

[nico]

I agree with H&H. It may or may not be fake, but that kind of behavior seems perfectly reasonable and to be expected.

 

[Stand_Watie]

I'd really like to know whether that was really east texas or elsewhere.

I have to say I never would have expected that a cougar could get that close up to a deer on the ground, even from directly behind. I had always imagined them waiting in ambush for the deer to walk by and then dropping on them from above or making a short charge. The idea that they are quiet enough to get that close to even a less than completely alert deer is a little disconcerting.

Maybe I need to get me a hikers/hunters cap that has big fake eyes sewn on the back of it.

 

[mtnbkr]

For whatever reason, deer aren't nearly as cautious and spooky at night as during the daytime. They sure don't react to sound nearly as quickly.

Ain't that the truth. I've had deer walk into our hunting camp at night, while we were all sitting around the campfire running our mouths. When we turned around and looked at her, she stopped, looked at us for a few seconds, then turned around and walked off as nonchalantly as she walked in. She was less than 5ft from the person closest to her.

Chris

 

[Art Eatman]

Stand, a couple of buddies and I were javelina hunting in Black Gap, years ago. One of the guy's had a knee acting up, so he "just sorta meddled" in the general vicinity of camp.

Easing along, he kept thinking he was hearing soft sounds behind him. Crumbly limestone ground, not a lot of dirt. He stopped and walked back twenty feet. Got a photo of a paddy-paw print, with the grass springing back up...

Another story: A guy was out varmint calling with a a buddy. They had a rag with bobcat urine set out about 50 feet in front of them, and they were hidden at the edge of some brush. Suddenly, a long tan shape drifted past them, about five feet in front. They saw the lion, but never heard the lion. This was in dry grass country, up in the Davis Mountains.

Art

 

[DigMe]

Pretty much only whitetails in East Texas. Also, I've never seen evidence of cougars in East Texas either although who knows...there very well could be.

brad cook

 

[spectr17]

This story is starting to grow legs just like Jim's grizz pic from a few years back.

The pic was taken in Oregon off a game cam by a Dave Stevens. It was on our game cam forum a few weeks back and now every Tom, Dick and Harry is claiming it was shot in their state by a buddy.

Not everything you get in email or on the net is true.

Our forum was about 50/50 on whether the pic was photoshopped.

 

[Stever]

spectr 17

Do you have a link/address to your game cam forum? Thanks.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Notice in the first image how the camera apparently did not manage to capture the deer as it walked by, but got the cougar centered in nearly the exact same spot each time?

I can't make out the time stamps. One says 1:52 AM and the other looks to be a 2 digit number with AM following. They both appear to be shot # 28. There is NO 2 digit AM time that would occur in the dark.

Contrary to the note, the cougar is not back to make another kill. I am actually a little surprised the kill was supposedly made and the cougar comes back completely clean.

DigMe, yes, you only see whitetails in East Texas, not Mule Deer. As for cougars, or mountain lions as they are also called, they can occur anywhere in the state.

 

[DigMe]

The pic was taken in Oregon off a game cam by a Dave Stevens. It was on our game cam forum a few weeks back and now every Tom, Dick and Harry is claiming it was shot in their state by a buddy.

Spectr17,

If you guys are split on whether it was photoshopped or not then how do you even know that Dave Stevens isn't just another Tom, Dick or Harry claiming that his game cam took the original picture?

brad cook

 

[Newt]

There is NO 2 digit AM time that would occur in the dark.

Correct me if I'm wrong: what about 12:00 AM?? Also, it could be set to military time. The first one looks like 13:01 and the second one looks like 1:52. Who knows?

Also, about the cat being in the middle of both pics... those game cams run off of infared. Many of them have a feature that sets them off on a time release. Critter stops for a few seconds and it snaps a pic. It helps to keep from developing a whole roll of the same critter each 2 seconds apart.

 

[DigMe]

DigMe, yes, you only see whitetails in East Texas, not Mule Deer. As for cougars, or mountain lions as they are also called, they can occur anywhere in the state.

Called many things actually. I read somewhere that they have the record for number of different names used to refer to the same species of animal.

Have you seen evidence of cougar in east texas? Where?

brad cook

 

[spectr17]

Spectr17,

If you guys are split on whether it was photoshopped or not then how do you even know that Dave Stevens isn't just another Tom, Dick or Harry claiming that his game cam took the original picture?

Because the person who sold Dave the game cam is the one who posted the pics. Just about every pic that is posted on cats will draw a 50/50 response on whether it is photoshopped or not. Lots of skeptics out there which is a good thing really IMHO.

Stever, our game cam forum is at http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/index.php?showforum=50

The cat pic discussion is at http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=69645

 

[duckslayer]

Digme,

I have seen tracks as well as heard screams from a panther/cougar/lion/whatever we call them. This was just north of Tyler in the Winona/Red Springs area where I was raised. I hava also seen tracks just north of Jacksonville.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Newt, okay, I screwed up. 12:00 AM is most definitely in the dark (except sometimes maybe in Alaska where they can end up with a 24 hour sun). Even with my horrendous mistake, the times do seem quite out of sync.

DigMe, current records for east Texas mountain lion/cougar are scarce, but strangely records exist in southeastern Oklahoma, southwestern Arkansas, and western Louisiana. Archaeologically, bear and mountain lion are found in several Caddo sites in east Texas. The habitat is more than suitable for the animal and given it is reported in all areas surrounding east Texas, no doubt it is in east Texas but has managed to avoid actual reporting. Actual reporting occurs as a result of actual animals taken and reported or reports by wardens and biologists.

Hall and Kelson show the distribution of mountain lion (Felis concolor) ranging from Panama to northwestern Canada and across all 48 contiguous states, but their survey was limited to North America and the animal continues well into South America.

This site lists mountain lion as an occasional animal in east Texas:
http://www.rra.dst.tx.us/bi/mammal/default1.cfm


Sources:
The Mammals of North America (Hall and Kelson)
Mammals of Oklahoma
Arkansas Mammals
The Mammals of Texas
The Mammals

Something to keep in mind about animal records is that they are something of a unique data event. For example, early naturalists reported herds of Elk in east Texas, on the plains of north central Texas, and in west Texas. There were even paintings made of elk on the Canadian River in the Panhandle of Texas, but there were no actual specimens ever collected before the elk were completely extirpated from Texas. Since that time, records of elk have come about, but from archaeological and paleontological contexts. The first two reported records of indigenous elk remains came first from a paleontological locality and then later from an archaeological locality. Both were reported in the Texas Journal of Science.

 

[Stand_Watie]

My neighbors, who are the huntinest, nature lovinest, rural types I know and who've been in the same place for their entire lives (the land I live on was part of their family farm of which their great-whatever was the first white to own). Claim that there have been cougars in the cedar creek river bottoms (behind my house) north of cedar creek reservouir for many years, and had seen tracks recently at a calf kill.

This outdoor life article makes the claim as well

http://www.outdoorlife.com/outdoor/hunting/article/0,19912,657230-1,00.html

'The thing is, there’s a lot of hard evidence (see map, next page). From East Texas north and east through Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Iowa, Indiana and Minnesota, hard evidence has been found where cougars were shot out more than a century ago. Let’s start in Kansas, where until last year cougars hadn’t been officially documented since 1904. The Kansas Biological Survey tested scat samples found on the Kansas University campus. The DNA analysis was conclusive. “There’s no doubt the scat samples are cougar,†says Mark Jakubauskas, research assistant professor with the Kansas Biological Survey'

 

[Art Eatman]

I've long been amused by the obstinacy of those who repeat, verily like unto a mantra, "There are no cougars, here." You take something as generally quiet as a cougar, who hunts mostly at night, and he's just not real visible.

Then, factor in that far fewer people are outdoors, now, than 50 and 100 years ago. (Yeah, I know. If you're a hiker or hunter, it seems like gazillions of others are invading your territory.) I say this because nowadays only about 3% of our population engages in farming, vice nearly 50% as late as the 1930s.

Then, you have the problem typified by the comment in Double Naught Spy's post: "Actual reporting occurs as a result of actual animals taken and reported or reports by wardens and biologists."

That means you gotta kill one and report to an Official Person, or an Official Person must have done the sighting. Duh?

"Art, you can't have seen a cougar. You're not an Official Person."

"Oops. Sorry. But it looked just like the cougar hide I have draped over my couch."

, Art

 

[Stand_Watie]

Good points Art. I think additionally, although this isn't specifically a cougar sighting, that it bears noting that just this spring a wolverine was photographed in Michigan's thumb, the first confirmed sighting in Michigan in I believe they said 200 years. I do believe we're seeing a resurgence in large, predatory mammals in the US in recent years, perhaps due in large portion to a resurgence of deer and 50 years of decreased hunting.

I don't entirely discount that some of these critters are realeased, or perhaps have even moved in from great distances away. I believe it was Weatherford or Waxahachie that had a confirmed sighting just a couple years back (one of the metro area burbs anyway).

 

[DigMe]

I just want ya'll to know that I'm not arguing against the existence of cougars in East Texas! I just had personally not seen any evidence or heard of anyone else seeing them when I was growing up in East Texas. I believe everyone that's posting the evidence. I think it's cool too!

Unfortunately the picture shows no evidence of lions in Bastrop county, where our land is, in Central TX and my primary hunting area. Doesn't mean they're not there though! I've seen a lot of coyotes, foxes, coons and other nocturnal animals there...maybe some day I'll see a coug.

brad cook

 

[DigMe]

Or I guess I could just photoshop these pictures in and CLAIM that I saw one :

brad cook

 

[Art Eatman]

Lotsa folks just don't realize the change in land use over the last 50-some years. My grandfather bought 150 acres in 1939, nine miles from the Texas capitol building. During WW II, I rarely saw deer tracks anywhere on his land, and I covered about every inch of it--and the neighbors' lands as well. The general area was heavily farmed. Corn and cotton, mostly.

I moved back there in 1968. One night, "just checking" with a spotlight, I counted over 50 deer. Farming had pretty much ended in that area by the late 1940s and the usage was mostly pasturage for cattle. This sort of change was common around central Texas.

By around 1970-1975, there were occasional reports of cougar sightings up around the Lake Travis area.

Now, in my area in southern Brewster County (the great biggie, in the SW part of Texas), there oughta be several dots. We're bum-deep in panther poop.

, Art

 

[Lonestar.45]

That Texas map isn't accurate, I can tell you first hand. They don't show a dot in Llano county. About 5 years ago, sitting on a tripod in October bowhunting, I saw one about 200 yds off. First, just this looong tail sticking up and moving through some high grass, then the entire animal through a clearing. We had other hunters spot a big male on the granite "mountain" in the middle of our lease the same year. They're definitely out there. On another lease in San Saba, we found what appeared to be a cougar killed buck. No tracks, the ground was too hard, but something chewed on it, and pulled it into the brush and covered it w/ a little dirt and sticks, etc.