Switzerland job offer.... gun laws for American expats?

[wacki]

Was just given a multi-hour sales pitch for a job offer in Switzerland. From what I can tell I should be OK with gun purchases. Can someone please confirm the appropriate process for a foreigner to purchase a gun & suppressor?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

Regarding most guns

to purchase a firearm in a commercial shop, one needs to have a Waffenerwerbsschein (weapon acquisition permit). A permit allows the purchase of three firearms. Everyone over the age of 18 who is not psychiatrically disqualified (such as having had a history of endangering his own life or the lives of others) or identified as posing security problems, and who has a clean criminal record (requires a Criminal Records Bureau check) can request such a permit.

PDF link

Regarding a suppressor... how hard is it to get this permit?

Basically, the sale of automatic firearms, selective fire weapons and certain accessories such as sound suppressors ("silencers") is forbidden (as is the sale of certain disabled automatic firearms which have been identified as easily restored to fully automatic capability). The purchase of such items is however legal with a special permit issued by cantonal police

 

[Frank Ettin]

I suggest that you check with a more authoritative source -- like the Swiss embassy or a Swiss consulate. I don't know for sure, but I would not be surprised if those gun rights described applied only to citizens, or at least to non-citizens who have met some stringent residency requirement.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

They have a much more open gun culture but (unless it changed in recent years) restrictions range from Canton to Canton with the German speaking ones being quite liberal (small "l") and the French speaking ones being more restrictive with personal firearms.

Edit: Looks like there were reorganized at the national level in 1999 and my info is older than that.

Have fun.

Mike

 

[RPRNY]

I lived in Switzerland for six years (Lausanne). Your residence permit will be the first issue. Not sure if they have changed the classifications, but your first permit will likely be an A Permit. This is essentially tied to employment and puts you pretty low on the totem pole. I doubt you will get a permis des armes on an A Permit.

After several years (I believe it may be two now but it used to be five for Americans) you can get a B Permit. B Permit is basically a Green Card and you would likely qualify for a firearms permit then (in Switzerland, that which does not require a permit is forbidden!, unless you shell out a lot of cash, then everything is flexible). It is extremely unlikely that as a foreigner you would ever get permission for a restricted item like a supressor from the Cantonal authorities - unless you shell out a lot of cash (investments, not bribes) and have a powerful Swiss sponsor.

We really enjoyed living in Switzerland but don't kid yourself, it's a police State. The iron fist is very softly ensconced in a velvet glove, but if you buck the system, you'll find the steel. Which is why Switzerland (their motto: "Let us be saved from Godless Communism and Free Market Capitalism) works, unlike the politically correct socialist states of the EU.

You will have a GREAT time. It's like an apartment in the best part of town. You go home where its safe and clean and calm. As long as you don't break the rules or bother anyone, it's all good. When you want to have fun, you get on the TGV and you're in Milan or Paris in hours, or a short flight to Rome, Prague, London etc. And the SKIING!!!!

 

[BullfrogKen]

From my understanding the nation is quite intolerant of those who are not Swiss.


Think Hawaiian attitude towards everyone from mainland US, but worse. The attitude is openly practiced and codified.

 

[PabloJ]

I would consider keeping rather low profile while moving to foreign land until I understood their culture and people a little better.

 

[Mike OTDP]

Get involved in competitive shooting sports, and join a local club ASAP. You should be good-to-go for air rifle and air pistol from the outset. Black powder should be fairly easy.

 

[RPRNY]

From my understanding the nation is quite intolerant of those who are not Swiss.


Think Hawaiian attitude towards everyone from mainland US, but worse. The attitude is openly practiced and codified.

The palpable intolerance is directed to those from East and South of Switzerland, and all others of dusky hue. It is however important to make a good effort with the local language. Good luck with the khookhykoschlig that passes for German in Switzerdeutsche!

 

[BullfrogKen]

RPRNY, my understanding of the culture was it was very Swiss-centric, and very ethno-centric. As in, if one wasn't quote, "of one the good ole boys" as we would say here in the 'states, he was an outsider. And the privileges and rights of someone who wasn't a good ole boy was very reminiscent of the Jim Crow laws one might live under as a black man/woman and anyone else of the loosely-undefined "ungentrified" in the Antebellum South.


Meaning, both the attitudes and the codified laws discriminated heavily against those not native to Switzerland. And everyone embraces the ostrification (spelling?) of outsiders, both in cultural practices and codified law.



Am I mistaken?

 

[Jim K]

Keeping a low profile is always a good idea in any foreign country. I always made it a point to dress and act as much like a native as possible (not possible in some countries, obviously). But right now, the U.S. is not at a high point in terms of liking or respect, and there is no point in standing out in a cowboy hat and boots and a stars and stripes jacket.

Jim

 

[wacki]

It is however important to make a good effort with the local language.

Been there before and I can hold 5 minute conversations pretty well. So I should be OK.

 

[RPRNY]

RPRNY, my understanding of the culture was it was very Swiss-centric, and very ethno-centric. As in, if one wasn't quote, "of one the good ole boys" as we would say here in the 'states, he was an outsider. And the privileges and rights of someone who wasn't a good ole boy was very reminiscent of the Jim Crow laws one might live under as a black man/woman and anyone else of the loosely-undefined "ungentrified" in the Antebellum South.


Meaning, both the attitudes and the codified laws discriminated heavily against those not native to Switzerland. And everyone embraces the ostrification (spelling?) of outsiders, both in cultural practices and codified law.



Am I mistaken?

Not mistaken per se but perhaps expressing an overly heightened sense of the thing. A foreigner is a foreigner and thus he shall remain but the Swiss are less insular than they were even 25 years ago and, provided one is a polite expat one will have little cause to feel other than welcome. The expat communities in Geneva, Lausanne, Bern, Basel and Zurich are quite big in any event. And an American will be less unwelcome in Zug than a Swiss Romande in any event!

 

[BullfrogKen]

I haven't yet heard anyone counter the experiences I've related towards immigrants to Switzerland.


So I'll leave you with this.

Switzerland has endured immigrants wanting entrance to their country because of war in their native European lands for longer than America has been a nation. Switzerland has endured all this and retained their Swiss heritage. Although they have their mountain barriers, this is no coincidence. They are Swiss. And they are immensely proud of being Swiss.

The rights of the citizens in Switzerland are directly tied to that which furthers the ability for Switzerland to remain an independent Swiss nation, capable of defending itself as an independent nation capable of both defending itself as an independent nation and remaining one after any conflict. And this is after seeing centuries of war on the continent of Europe. War that pre-dates our War for Independence by generations.

From all I know of Switzerland, it is a fiercely xenophobic nation who has for centuries zealously guarded its Swiss-centric identity.


Can the Swiss own cool stuff we can't here?

Yup.

But they own it because its guards the state.



And you - as an outsider - wouldn't be seen as someone who guards the state's interests.



Simply put, if you want own cool stuff, move to a US state that lets you own cool stuff.

If you want to see cool places in Europe, take a job in Switzerland.


But the two are mutually exclusive.


And if you were Swiss, your gun ownership rights would be directly tied to the defense of the state, which is rather contrary to the rights of those we as US citizens have - along with all our other rights. Like free speech, and freedom of assembly, which the Swiss don't recognize.

Sooo . . . while they sound cool on gun rights . . . the Swiss, like the rest of Europe, recognize collective rights.


Do you really want to go to a collectivist-rights nation?

If you have a chance to tour it? Dude go do it. But I'd rather have my individual rights to own arms, as opposed to the Swiss, who recognize a collectivized one, only supported to those who have a long-standing allegiance to the state.


Which would you choose.

 

[tarosean]

I am an Expat, currently working in the middle east (Bahrain, Saudi, Qatar, UAE). Though Ive also worked in other countries like Angola, Scotland, Germany, Canada. Living in other countries makes you appreciate the US and hate stuff about it too.

I would say you need to give up on any thoughts of legally purchasing a firearm on a work visa.

Not that it matters. I read recently that it took Tina Turner (the singer) some 25yrs + to become a citizen of Switzerland.

 

[Mp7]

The swiss are special.

No one talks or thinks slower
(some exceptions, true. )

Due to their little number (8Million.)
they do have reservations about getting too many
immigrants. Example: They have almost exclusively
foreigners working in hospitality.
But they don`t want them to become citizens.


We (germans) are known by them for being way more
strict and hectic and "aggressive" about getting things done,
with the swiss.

They do not like that. They let people feel that.

(many skilled jobs in CH are done by germans,
they make a lot of swiss workers look lazy ....)


Overall they are a cute people.
Not sure i would want to live there.
But the money is good. (And life expensive)

 

[PabloJ]

The swiss are special.

No one talks or thinks slower
(some exceptions, true. )

Due to their little number (8Million.)
they do have reservations about getting too many
immigrants. Example: They have almost exclusively
foreigners working in hospitality.
But they don`t want them to become citizens.


We (germans) are known by them for being way more
strict and hectic and "aggressive" about getting things done,
with the swiss.

They do not like that. They let people feel that.

(many skilled jobs in CH are done by germans,
they make a lot of swiss workers look lazy ....)


Overall they are a cute people.
Not sure i would want to live there.
But the money is good. (And life expensive)

Why the "long" rant. Let us keep it simple......it is wonderful wealthy little country that does not want socioeconomic problems found in United States.

 

[Midwest]

I think the Czech Republic is more pro-gun than Switzerland
.

 

[PabloJ]

I think the Czech Republic is more pro-gun than Switzerland
.

When in grade school I spent summers with Mr. Urlich in Praha. He worked as manager for brach of Swiss bank there. My first "gun" was .177 break open pellet gun bought few blocks from famous clock on the corner near large fountain name of which I no longer remember. Czechs are friendly have gorgeous women and excellent beer, but quite honestly I'm not familiar with their gun laws.

 

[Midwest]

Czechs are friendly have gorgeous women and excellent beer, but quite honestly I'm not familiar with their gun laws.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_Czech_Republic

.

 

[StephenT]

Wacki,

Switzerland has pretty relaxed gun laws compared to most of Europe. I've got family there, and my sister's husband, who's Swiss, is into guns and seems to have no problem buying them at his gun store in Lausanne.

Can you as a foreigner buy guns there, honestly I don't know. I imagine that you'd be required to have some residency status, probably at least a B or C permit.

FYI, if you're an American, you're going to have an extremely hard time opening a bank account in Switzerland. You might want to ask your employer what can be done about it. Look up FATCA and its implications for Americans living abroad, especially in Switzerland. Why is it important? How do you work and live abroad without a bank account? Do look into this matter before you move.

 

[RPRNY]

The IRS prohibition on " Swiss accounts", actually an agreement between the US and Swiss govts, is for US citizens not resident in Switzerland. I had to close accounts at two Swiss banks even though I had always declared them and interest income. But if an American holds a Swiss residence permit, there's no issue, from the Swiss side. From the US side, full disclosure is advisable because the Swiss will declare the account(s) to the IRS.

 

[Panzerschwein]

From my understanding the nation is quite intolerant of those who are not Swiss.


Think Hawaiian attitude towards everyone from mainland US, but worse. The attitude is openly practiced and codified.

I have a Hawaiian friend who is very friendly to all people. He is one of my best friends and I don't agree with what you said, in fact most Hawaiians I've met have been very kind.

I find this comment racist and offensive.

 

[BullfrogKen]

Not that it matters. I read recently that it took Tina Turner (the singer) some 25yrs + to become a citizen of Switzerland

Well, see, it kinda does.


wacki asked a question about if going there on what amounts to a work visa would enable him to buy firearms. And not just any firearms, but suppressors.

It took Tina Turner 2 1/2 decades to gain citizenship. She's not just anybody, she's a famous world figure. And wealthy.

How long does it take for an average joe to gain US citizenship? If he/she has a permanent job here, 5 years.


Again, I stand behind my comments. The Swiss zealously guard their heritage and nationality, and the full rights of citizenship are reserved to citizens of Switzerland when it comes to owning cool guns.


Still, if I had a good job opportunity there, and I was a young person, I'd definitely go do it. I just wouldn't take some crap job in hopes that I might get to enjoy the rights the Swiss have to own all the cool guns and stuff.

 

[BullfrogKen]

I have a Hawaiian friend who is very friendly to all people. He is one of my best friends and I don't agree with what you said, in fact most Hawaiians I've met have been very kind.

I find this comment racist and offensive.

I saw your post after composing mine, so I'll respond to it.


I have zero disagreement with your assertion that native Hawaiians are a friendly people. Because they are.


The comment I made is in regards to the attitude they have towards their statehood in 1959, and the resulting consequences.

You cannot argue that the native Hawaiians grievances towards the US were codified in the Apology Resolution of 1993, adopted by both houses of Congress and signed by President Bill Clinton, expresses the discontent of native Hawaiians.


The nation had disagreements with how the US acquired the land of Native Americans (aka Indians) and we attempted to make that right by providing them territory they have independent rule over here in the Continental US. We made no such effort in Hawaii.


There exists a very real anti-federal attitude in Hawaii. There are many native Hawaiians who resent making them a state of the union. The increase in the cost of living brought upon Hawaii by both the mainland Americans who brought their standard of life with them when they moved there, coupled with a US income tax and the cost of complying with US statutory regulations has left many natives Hawaiians destitute.


The people are great. But a great many native Hawaiians harbor a resentment no different than the resentment the American Indians harbor towards the US, over very similar circumstances.


The Marines I have known in my unit who were stationed there experienced it firsthand.

 

[JSH1]

Still, if I had a good job opportunity there, and I was a young person, I'd definitely go do it.

As would I. Gun or no guns, if I had the opportunity to work and live in Europe I would jump on it. I haven't lived there but at a previous job I spent about 60 days a year visiting customers in Europe. It was an excellent experience and a great opportunity to learn about different cultures.