Swords ?

[Jim March]

Don, the "Camp Knife Stubbybeast" is now in Reno, Nevada, where Bill Martino takes delivery, cleans 'em up, inspects 'em, prices 'em and puts them up for sale. Bill is many wonderful things, but a metalsmith he ain't. Somebody else would have to modify it, which doesn't mean just chopping the grip, a new pommel of some sort would have to be crafted. And then it'd be worth maybe $75 or so? Better to sell it as a comical, still-useful oddity at a discount, which is no doubt what'll happen to it. It DOES have a lot of utility use as-is, it's just wierd .

As is, it's more of a "hatchet that can stab and cut" than anything else...actually sorta neat . Not my first choice as a weapon but as a utility piece...why not?

 

[Sean Smith]

MUST-READ if you want to understand what real combat swords (not replica display pieces) are like:

http://thehaca.com/essays.htm

http://thehaca.com/essays/newsword.htm

http://thehaca.com/essays/nobest.htm

http://thehaca.com/essays/hype.htm

Most swords out there are inauthentic junk. The most obvious test? The weight. A made-for-combat longsword should only weigh 2-3 pounds. Even the big 40" two-handers should only weigh 4-5 pounds. By contrast, many "fantasy" swords weigh 12 pounds!

Worth a look:

http://www.armor.com/2000/catalog/catalog.html

Kris Cutlery's European swords are about DOUBLE the correct weight for those weapons, which suggests they are pretty much clueless. Their claymore is over TRIPLE the correct weight.

Cold Steel's blades are at least about the right weight for a real weapon.

 

[JShirley]

Had one of the HI katanas. NOT traditional nipponese, but tough.

Will prolly get a Cold Steel Grosse Messer (did I spell that right?) sometime.

 

[cavscout]

ditto what Sean said- ARMA is the way to go for real combat w/ swords. Training w/ Intent is the only way to practice. Western Martial arts are probably less influenced by Hollywood than Eastern only because it hasnt been discovered yet. Dont forget that Asia conquered Europe during the period 1200-2000 so their methods are superior to European.!!

 

[Arikay]

Well I dont see how KCs claymore is over triple the correct weight, since KC lists their claymore as 5.5 - 5.7 pounds which is only slightly heavier than the weight that you listed.
Most of their large euro swords are around 3 pounds, which is still reasonable.

Most of cold steels chinese style stuff, is good but considered slightly heavier than historical weight. although they are still usable and I like the Dadao of theirs that I own.

Originally posted by Sean Smith
MUST-READ if you want to understand what real combat swords (not replica display pieces) are like:

http://thehaca.com/essays.htm

http://thehaca.com/essays/newsword.htm

http://thehaca.com/essays/nobest.htm

http://thehaca.com/essays/hype.htm

Most swords out there are inauthentic junk. The most obvious test? The weight. A made-for-combat longsword should only weigh 2-3 pounds. Even the big 40" two-handers should only weigh 4-5 pounds. By contrast, many "fantasy" swords weigh 12 pounds!

Worth a look:

http://www.armor.com/2000/catalog/catalog.html

Kris Cutlery's European swords are about DOUBLE the correct weight for those weapons, which suggests they are pretty much clueless. Their claymore is over TRIPLE the correct weight.

Cold Steel's blades are at least about the right weight for a real weapon.

 

[Trisha]

((( we both do edged weapons forms...)

Here is our favorite supplier for Kendo & TaeKwonDo edged weapons:

http://www.bugei.com/

Susan also happens to have a custom made two-handed double-edged long sword (sorry, no pics).

I could wipe out my credit rating shopping at Bugei....

Trisha

 

[buttrap]

The bottom line is you can buy a lot of new ahh "swords" but the old blades cost less and are much better too. I really like the old german blades from about 1750 to 1900. A good share of the old 1860 model sabers used during the civil war where old geman blades rehilted even. Most of the new stuff is just ahh "junk" in a pretty wrapper.

 

[Arikay]

Well it depends on what new stuff you are talking about. As there are many quality new swords.

 

[Tamara]

buttrap,

As someone who is selling old military swords (mostly German) for a living right now, I have to question that. The blade of a quality modern repro is every bit as good, if not better, than old military swords. (Remember, with the exception of cavalry sabers, most old military swords were not even intended as working weapons. Comparing a British Pattern 1796 Light Cavalry saber to, say, a U.S. Army Pattern 1903 Officer's Sword is like comparing a 1911 to a PSM. One is a weapon, one is a badge of rank).

 

[JShirley]

Uh...1911= badge of rank
PSM= assassination weapon?



John (who actually wants a 5x18mm)

 

[Tamara]

JShirley,

Uh...1911= badge of rank

Tell that to the pre-WWI cavalry troopers they were issued to. The 1911 was designed as a fighting handgun. Granted, they were later used (as pistols are wont to be) as badges of rank.

From what I've read, the PSM was designed to be light, easy to carry, and not to interfere with the sliding of a vodka gut behind a desk. Their utility in poking holes in Level I body armor was more an afterthough than anything else.

 

[JShirley]

Well, I interpreted their extreme flatness and the cartridge in the same fashion that I view the Skorpion .32 subgun: a tool for a specific job, but you could be right about the design "drivers".

(You know I was JUST KIDDING about 'Ole Slabsides.)

 

[Tamara]

Sorry...

Sometimes my pedantic half runs loose at the keyboard until I whack her upside the head with a canoe paddle...

 

[Lone Star]

No one seems to have noted www.wilkinsonsword.com Pricey, but I gather they still quench in whale oil so that the blades won't snap in real battle. The ones I've handled (couldn't afford 'em) were well made, as one would expect.

My son has a Roman spatha (cavalry sword, longer than the gladius, but otherwise much the same, from Albion Armourers.) It's well made, but he said they have a spotty delivery over the last year or so. Supposedly too backed up on orders and busy re-doing their shop. Anyone heard anything on this?

Lone Star

 

[Sean Smith]

Oops, misread the weight on their site.

Their swords are larded up a bit, but not outrageously so.

 

[Tamara]

Pricey, but I gather they still quench in whale oil so that the blades won't snap in real battle.

*sigh* Does nobody quench in the blood of a virgin any more?


Kidding!

Thanks for that link, I need to send off for their brochures. I get the feeling that their prices will be "If you have to ask...".

 

[JShirley]

Tam,

Don't reckon there'd be many blades made, then!

 

[Lone Star]

Tamara-

I've seen a few Wilkinson swords in a shop nearby. They tended to run about $1200, but that was several years ago. If you click on their knives, I think they want about $1500 for the Shakespear
knife and more for the Bowie style or London Hunting Knife, whichever a purist would call it.

I spelled Shakespear that way intentionally. The knife designer evidently wasn't a close relative of the Bard...

I've handled the M1912 cavalry sword, and advise buying it only if you'll fight mounted. Bit long for ground combat. I really liked the Pattern M1897 Officers' Sword; it handled well for me, and I could see myself sticking a Fuzzy-Wuzzy or Afghan with it about the time that Winston Churchill was on active cavalry service.

I was underwhelmed with their survival knife. The Fairbairn-Sykes repros are probably the best made, but that model knife isn't really first choice anymore except maybe as a letter opener.

To go with your Wilkinson sword, you'll want some excellent British tea, so go to: www.twinings.com and check out their site. I do use Twining's teas, which are well distributed in the USA. Fascinating history of tea, as well as this company's own blends are described on the site. They've been in business since 1706, so I guess they're doing something right.


Lone Star

 

[Triad]

Prices on their knives. I saw no mention of their sword prices, but they will refurbish old swords with that starting at £330.00.

The RBD knife is priced at £1269 including vat (US$1680) which includes a customized wooden case, available in a selection of high quality hard woods.

The Shakespeare knife is priced at £1100 including vat (US$1450), which includes the knife, hand carved and stitched scabbard and frog, elegant wooden case and personalized engraving if required.

 

[bobs1066]

I'm sure it was legally "necessary", but I was amused to see that Wilkinson specified that they don't sell their $1400 & up knives to persons under 18.

I can just see some JD with his cash in hand thinking, "should I get that tarted-up Bushmaster or a Shakespeare knife?"...

 

[Navy joe]

So, where does one buy cheap grass mats? Know of any good stickfighting clubs in Virginia? The reason I ask is because thanks to Jim the HI folks sucked me in and I now have the HI katana and British Service Kuhkri coming my way.

And thus another expensive hobby begins....

 

[Soap]

Navy Joe- For the mats see: http://www.tameshigiri.com

 

[hso]

$1450 for a handmade carbon steel "dagger" with a hand-chequed grip is a bit out of line as is the $1680 stick tang/stag Bowie.

A good non-famous american maker could reproduce either of these for half the price and damascus should only add another $100 to the price.
http://store.yahoo.com/knifeart/dam4.html.

A famous maker like Jerry Fisk, U.S. national living treasure, would only ask $1200 for a knife "like" the Wilkinson Bowie.
http://www.fisk-knives.com/Field Grade Pieces.htm.

As to the swords, I can't comment because sword prices are highly variable and Wilkinson has a considerable reputation to draw upon.

If you want a good sword at a good price I can validate Tamara's prices as being more than reasonable. The quality of the swords are excellent (I ought to know) and their histories ad to their value. Add to that the fact they were actually made when the wielders life depended on their quality and I'd say you're assured of a bargain.

Whale oil?

 

[cavscout]

"stick fighting club"

Navy Joe go to the ARMA site and the address for ARMA-Virginia is there. also list of practice partners and other ARMA Study Groups around the world.

 

[Don Gwinn]

Whale oil?

What is the advantage of whale oil as a quench medium?

Being a poor American, I generally use ATF fluid.