T/C Hawken: convince me to buy

[Daizee]

I have an opportunity to buy a used T/C Hawken .54, 28" barrel, missing the rear sight - for less than the price of a new CVA. It looks to be in good shape, and tight.

What twist do these normally come with?
I'll check it at the store when I get a chance...

I already have an Investarm-made .50 carbine which I intend to use for Deer hunting, but the price on this Hawken... deer lord (pardon).

Pictures, stories of wild hunts, claims of exceptional accuracy all solicited.

-Daizee

 

[bullseye308]

I have a CVA Hawken in .54(& .50) that is nothing but fun. I bought it from Service Merchandise around 1990 as a kit. Haven't had a need to get another since, and I haven't even used the .50 barrel yet. I will be trying it out this weekend if the weather permits though.
I believe the twist will be 1 in 48, like most of them I have seen.

For me, the look of the CVA Hawken was what got me interested. It might not be as acurate a copy of an original as some, but I like it just fine.

 

[D.Delozier]

The TC hawkens are nice sturdy guns.They also hold thier value well,I've recently sold mine on Gunbroker got 275 for it, hated to sell but neede the cash (hard times!!) But the invest arms are nice to probly neck and neck with the TC.I've also sold one of those recently a flinter got 200 for it.I really dont think you'll regret getting it if you decide to Fine guns

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Thomson Center Hawkens usually have a 1:48 twist rate.

It's an American company that makes stuff IN America, some of the best production steel used for factory BP rifles on the planet.

The company has been around for so long there are lots of after market stuff for them..,

Greenmountain Rifle Barrel Co makes drop in barrels for it, so you can swap out your barrel for a small game caliber if you so choose.

If you later get an authenticity bug, there are aftermarket locks designed for the gun, as well as after market hardware to make it appear more "historic".

OR if you like the hardware fine, but would like a nicer piece of wood, there are after market premade stocks of curly maple that use all of the stock parts, that only need sanding and finishing.

So..., if you decide "no" then could you tell me who I should contact to buy it?

LD

 

[hawmanai]

Buy it

I have wanted one since I was a little kid.

 

[Jack R]

can't beat the customer service,I have a .50 cal hawken bought used for $150 15 yrs ago. was having a misfire problem..called TC for a price on a lock rebuilding kit...was sent one for free. they also told me to look at the underside of the barrel, and if there was a maltese cross there, there was,send the barrel to them for replacement. would not hesitate to buy any TC gun....Jack

 

[Pancho]

I've got 3 TC's and I'd not hesitate to buy another one. Don't worry about the missing rear sight. They're easy to find. Just so you'll know the nipple thread is 1/4-28. I know a guy that loaded a ball with no powder. His answer was to replace the nipple with a grease fitting and pushed the ball out by filling it with a grease gun. Go figure.

 

[Ratdog68]

No, don't do it...

tell ME where to get it from and I'll put your mind to rest about it.

Snatch that puppy up and be happy.

 

[NobleSniper]

One of the best American Made front loaders I ever had.......matter of fact the only one I have ever had as far as a rifle. Never had a moments trouble from it and vry very accurate with RB's and 80 grains Get it get it get it

 

[Daizee]

very convincing!!

I checked the twist this evening - 1:48", as predicted.
It's a nice-feeling rifle, and all the appointments are brass. My Investarm has some aluminum bits (fore-end, cross-pin hardware).

It looks like the hammer sits a shade to the inside, coming down not quite centered on the nipple. Is this common? Can I shim the hammer out a touch?

I put it back in the reserved rack. Still pondering. I bought a crapload of reloading bits today and couldn't stand to plunk the card down *again*.

-Daizee

 

[mykeal]

Unlikely that the Investarm has aluminum parts - German silver, perhaps.

Off center hammer alignment is a common problem. Shim the entire lock, rather than the hammer itself.

 

[Daizee]

Thanks, mykeal - that's interesting about the lock. Is there a thread or page you know of on tweaking these things? I want to make sure I know what I'm getting into.

The supposed aluminum parts on the Investarm are blackened somehow, which is why i guessed aluminum. They'd be a LOT of silver, and it's a Cabela's branded model, not one of the spiffier Investarm-direct units.

-Daizee

 

[rocklock]

Tweaking the Hammer

If it's just a little bit to bend, put the part of the hammer that attaches to the lock in a padded vice, and bend the other end with a large crescent wrench. Doesn't take much, so don't overdo it, just kind of sneak up on it. I had a CVA that was really bad, and decided to heat up the middle of the hammer with a torch, to a dull red, to bend it. I did that years ago, and it stills works fine after much shooting. There may be others here who know better and recommend against heating it, but it worked for me.
We have three .54 TC rifles in the family, a Hawken and 2 Renegades (same as the Hawken, but a shorter barrel), and @ 50 yds. all will shoot 5 shot cloverleaf groups with a 430 gr. Maxiball (handcast) over 100-110 grs. of Pyrodex RS. With a patched roundball, about 3 inches or less, plenty good for hunting.

 

[Daizee]

Thanks rocklock.
If I grab it I may try the hammer bend. The action screws need to be snugged a bit anyway, so I'll just go over it once first.

I sorta wish it was a .50 since I already have one, but I see that MMP makes sabots for .54->.452. With a medium-twist barrel my intuition says that the small-for-caliber .45acp bullets should shoot pretty well, so I'd only need a different sabot sleeve. Does that make sense?
(trying to keep things simple)

-Daizee

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Sorry, missing a sight, in a less popular caliber, I wouldn't give more than about $160-$175 for it tops, even in great condition. "Less than a new CVA" don't make it a good deal. Sorry. Hit some gun shows and you will find ones with the sight. What's the actual asking price?

 

[Daizee]

$90.

And no, I won't say where it is 'cause I'm gonna get it.

-Daizee

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Well, ok, for $90, yes! As long as the bore ain't pitted out, absolutely!

 

[mykeal]

Do not remove, bend or heat the hammer. Shim the entire lock. It's a whole lot simpler, easier and adjustable. Place the hammer in half cock, remove the single screw, remove the lock, place a small shim of wood in the mortise at the top (in order to move the top of the lock outward), replace the lock, replace the screw (do NOT tighten the screw; it should just be snug; if you overdo it, it will interfere with the hammer) and check alignment. Adjust the shim thickness accordingly.

German silver isn't silver; it's an alloy of copper, zinc and nickel. Hard and highly resistant to corrosion, was commonly used for gun furniture from the early 19th century.

 

[Daizee]

German silver isn't silver; it's an alloy of copper, zinc and nickel.

oh.
obviously I didn't know that.

I prefer the shim idea to the bending - the hammer is clearly a cast part. bending a cast part.... *cringe*

Thanks for all the feedback, everyone.
Assuming I pick it up tomorrow, as planned, I'll post a picture.

-Daizee

 

[arcticap]

Putting beeswax around the lock mortise is another possible way to shim it. Some folks use this method to help seal the mortise from moisture and powder residue, but if you use a little extra and/or add some paraffin wax to it to make it harder, it could provide enough bulk to shim it. Even if using wood as a shim, it would still be a good idea applying it just for the sake of sealing the lock mortise.

 

[AussieTH]

Daizee mate,

If that gun has a hold on you (which it obviously has) then go out and buy it.

Look – I am getting long in the tooth these days (what teeth I have left anyway) and my life has been studded with ‘missed opportunities’. I would see something that really appealed and then think “no, it will come up again” and it never did – so I missed out.

My latest acquisition was a large and complicated ornament – King Arthur and the Round Table etc done in pewter and some kind of porcelain imitation compound. The French original was off the planet in costs but I latched onto a very high quality copy at less than a third of the price, including direct airmail from the States. So I just bought it and never regretted doing so.

It does not do anything – just sits there under part of my sword collection – but it is a dimension to my life and if you do not have dimensions then you do not really have a life!

Just buy it mate! Scratch the itch. You can always sell it or exchange it – but you will have possessed it!

Aye

Tony

 

[mykeal]

Articap's mention of beeswax is excellent. Better than wood shims for someone doing this the first time. If you have a local hobby supply store you can get some there, or even over the internet.

Bending the hammer isn't a bad idea, but if you're not familiar with it and/or don't have the tools it can be difficult, and you can mess it up pretty easily. The shim is just easier, especially if you get it wrong and have to redo it.

 

[Daizee]

Oooh, I like the beeswax idea.
There's a solid pound of it around here somewhere.

Tony, you're right. I'm gonna get the thing.
I might trade it for a .50, a lefty for my friend, or just shoot it up.
It'll double in value the minute I replace the sight and shim the hammer. That's a whole lot better than the stock market these days.

-Daizee

 

[Daizee]

I got it!
Spent an unexpected amount of extra cash on accessories... unexpected 'cause I already have BP basics. The store didn't have .54->.45 sabots in stock, so I got some PRB's and patches. Plus a ramrod with threads in the end.... Plus the rear sight...

Well, I'll help keep him in business, and he sure knows my taste.

At any rate, I'm comparing the T/C to my Cabela's/Investarm carbine. I'll post pix when I can. Here's how they match up so far, not having shot the T/C:

The barrels are NOT interchangeable. Close, but not quite. I think there may be a 1/16" diameter difference and the breech hook on the Investarm is smaller, plus there's a relief cut in the sideplate for the flash channel thing. The T/C flash channel thing hooks OVER the sideplate entirely.

The T/C is a nicer gun, in my estimation. Here's the breakdown, pro's of each:

Pros:
T/C Hawken: longer sight radius, better metal plus patch box (all brass), parts availability

Cabelas/Investarm: .50cal (prefer), better balance, handy size, real recoil pad, flash channel cleanout screw, stock checkering

Cons:
T/C Hawken: pretty, but brutal brass butt plate, heavier, .54cal medium twist

Cabela's: lower-grade metal bits (black German silver or anodized aluminum?), less precise fit, parts

-Daizee

 

[BHP FAN]

Congrats.Back when I was young,and dinosaurs ruled the earth,my dad bought one of the very first TC Hawkens out there. My dad built it up from a kit,and we were amazed at the accuracy we wrung out of it.My buddy had a really fine Mauser,and kinda pooh-poohed the BP TC.''Wadda you want with one of them ol' things ?'' went the conversation. Finally it got kinda heated [just between friends,though] and he offered to shoot ''for pinks''.I said no way,that's my dad's!My ol' man had sat quietly listening to us...now he spoke up.''Don't let that stop you son'' he said with a grin.
Longish story short,my buddy foolishly let me set the terms.I did NOT want to lose my ol' man's rifle,so I set out three cans,at about seventy five yards.[that's what my dad and I had been shooting at all weekend] and said best two out of three,and when we each took turns,I went first,and knocked down one, he went ,missed one,and I went and got mine,and so on,until all three cans were down.''Wait!''cried my buddy..'' best two out of three'', he asked?
No way says I,and took his beautiful Argentine Mauser,[it had the greatest ''brindle'' stock] and stuck it in the back of my closet for a week.[just to teach him a lesson] I eventually gave it back,and my buddy ended up even more into black powder guns than I am.