Tactical Safety - Vehicles

[CAPTAIN MIKE]

VEHICLE ENTRY & EXIT VULNERABILITY

Most of us don't realize the degree of vulnerability that exists when entering and exiting vehicles. In most cases it's because our attention is primarily on the immediate task at hand in most cases - getting into or out of the vehicle. Maybe it's because we do it so much.

One of the two times I've had to draw my sidearm in earnest for self-preservation occured in the parking lot of a north San Diego County supermarket late one night on my way home.

At that time I still drove my silver Corvette (the 'Babe-Mobile') and that night as I swung the driver's side door open and started to step out, I heard voices and footsteps approaching from behind me & to the left. As I turned, one of the Bad Guys did me a big tactical favor and announced their intentions before they even got within 25 feet.

I drew my sidearm in a flash, and quickly acquired a good sight picture on the closest target while commanding them "Stop or I'll Shoot!!". I was more mad than scared at the time. And to our mutual good fortune, they both took one look at my 1911, the half-assed use of cover I had made with my vehicle and decided to make a sharp right hand turn back to their own rear oblique and (to use a Legal Phrase) they 'Hauled ???'.

Lucky for me. They didn't know it then, but I did not have a round in the chamber, ready to launch. And boy did I ever wish I did!!

But since that fateful night, I have always carried my 1911 in Condition One when exercising my CCW rights. I also now make it a regular habit to check around me pretty good both before and after vehicle entries & exits -- just in case.

 

[armoredman]

A lesson learned without damage or death is a good one. Alsways hot, always look, park between two empty spots if possible - I can walk in just fine, don't have to get that one right up front. Shop daytime.

 

[aroshi]

I do have to add that choice of vehicle is also important. I'm not a small guy and I know that getting out of a corvette (especially because of how low they sit) is quite a tactical task. It's almost more difficult than rising from supine simply because the vehicle is its own obstacle.

Now, I love 'vette's and will probably own one later on, too, but mostly I now drive trucks where I need to step down from them. These, unfortunately are slightly more difficult to get into than to get out of, for tactical purposes.

One thing to consider, with possible vehicles around you, as well as bystanders, I prefer to use small melee weapons in a close encounter like this. I usually have a Mag-Light (4 D cell) right inside my door that serves a few purposes. I've used high-power magnets to attach weapons just inside the door of previous vehicles too, just grab and go.

Always make sure you train to use the weapons which you choose to defend yourself with... ALWAYS. And your number one weapon is your mind.

 

[BerettaNut92]

One of the reasons I really like my CRV is that I'm standing level with the ground--with real SUVs or trucks I have to climb up and with smaller cars I have to climb out. With my CRV I just slide right in.

Also more shooting ports (sunroof, flip-up trunk window) than a Ford Crown Victoria

 

[Bob F.]

Agree re: vehicle choice, like my Toyota truck, I can slide in and out. Old Ford Tempo or Merc Mystique I had to haul myself out-(getting old and stiff). Changed job and do a lot of writing while mobile-getting in the habit of locking doors so I'm not taken by surprise (so easily) while parked and writing on charts. 9mm Mak's not far away, either!

 

[aroshi]

One other situation to consider with vehicles is the ability to maneuver items within. Storing a shotgun vertically in the passenger compartment of a Crown Vic, not where I'd put it, but it does have its good points.

I am often scared of how close some people sit to the steering wheel, just for accidents sake, let alone the lack of maneuverability available when getting out of, or getting into a vehicle. That's not even mentioning the need to manipulate a person or weapon while in that space.

I am not a small person, but I still like to have my legs almost at full extension when pressing the pedal all the way down, this allows my arms to hang relaxed with space in front of me.

From a draw, I have enough room to turn my torso completely sideways between the seat and the wheel to assume my (upper-body) firing stance at any angle out the driver's side window or doorway (old Ford Bronco).

 

[MarkDido]

"I am often scared of how close some people sit to the steering wheel, just for accidents sake, let alone the lack of maneuverability available when getting out of, or getting into a vehicle. That's not even mentioning the need to manipulate a person or weapon while in that space."

I could never figure that out either. Why people (usually females) have that seat slid as far forward as possible so that their chest is inches away from the steering wheel. Air bag deployment would mash them into a pancake I would think?

 

[Rickstir]

Sometimes you learn a lesson the easy way. A few months ago, I pulled into a stop and rob. My wife got out the passenger side and went inside. I lingered just a minute or two to listen to a football game on the radio. When I decided to open my door, there was a stranger standing RIGHT THERE! to the read of the door. I hadn't seen him, had no clue he was there. He asked if I "wanted anything"...drugs I supposed. Told him no and he spun around and got into the next car. He had me cold, if he would have had more evil intentions the door was wide open. Boy did that make a believer out of me. Thanked the Good Lord and resolved to acquire and use SA skills.

 

[R-Tex12]

Some of you may recall the execution (As Clint Smith says, "In Texas, we burn our trash.") a few months ago of Napolean Beasley, the "kid" who was 17 years old when he shot and killed his carjacking victim one night here in East Texas.

That happened in the town where we live - about a mile and a half from our house. The man who was killed was one of our community leaders. He and his wife had just returned from a trip to Dallas and had been followed by a group of thugs who had spotted them a few miles away from the Luttig's home.

Mr. Luttig had just pulled into his garage and had gotten out of his car when Beasley approached and shot him. Beasley also shot at Mrs. Luttig, who survived by playing 'possum. It's quite likely Mr. Luttig would still be with us had he learned about SA.

As a side note, during all the national/international hoopla about "executing children", it was not once mentioned that Beazley had previously said to his "homies" that he wanted to find out what it felt like to kill someone. It also escaped mention that he had talked about his plans to "jack" a Mercedes. These two tidbits came out before and at his trial, but weren't reported in any of the national news articles that I saw. That twit Geraldo even went so far as to say, "It was just a car-jacking gone bad". As though a car-jacking starts out "good".

R-Tex

 

[Hardtarget]

Even though I try to be aware, every so often it happens. At a traffic light, just as I left work, a guy almost stuck his head in my truck window to ask me a question. I swear I think he came up out of the pavement! It will kind of rattle you for a while. Since then I've made a real effort to see who and what is around me, but I know I'll miss it again...just hope we'll survive the lapse. ( at self)
Mark.

 

[knowledgegreen]

Great posts all!

I have always felt that it's inherently dangerous when you are entering, exiting or sitting (while waiting for the Mrs.) in a static vehicle. When sitting in a parking lot I find it very hard to maintain 360* security. I am constantly scanning but its hard keep a focus on the two blind spots in my vehicle. I also make sure that I can motivate forward instead of being restricted to moving in reverse (such as when backing out of a parking space). Anyone care to share any specific techniques while sitting stationary in the vehicle?

 

[Andrew Rothman]

Anyone care to share any specific techniques while sitting stationary in the vehicle?

Um... Don't?

Get out. It's too darned vulnerable.

One of the reasons I really like my CRV...

Yeah, but my arthritic grandmaw can keep up with it without breaking a sweat. I would recommend an Urban Assualt Vehicle with a little more horsiepower.

 

[Kingcreek]

first post in the tac forum...
last year I was driving thru a declining neighborhood and a short detour just 1 block off the main route. A city an hour away and an area where I used to live 25 years ago. Nice day and I was mentally pre-occupied, driver's side window fully open and arm on the door of my F250 SuperDuty 4x4. Stopped at a stop sign for just a moment and started to pull out when a fella hops up onto my driver-side running board and grabs the rearview mirror with his left and says he "needs a ride". When he tried unsuccessfully to open the locked door with his right hand and then reached in to grab the wheel, I figured out the big grinning face next to my left cheek was not my new friend.
My right hand swiped the 50oz Fox Labs pepperspray from above the visor and gave him a face full. In the rearview I see him rolling around in the middle of the intersection as I drove away. I got a taste of the OC myself from the overspray but was able to drive a few blocks before I pulled over in a safer location.
I replayed that event several times and its hard to believe how fast it happened and how close I came to something worse(?) I try real hard not to make mistakes like that again and the OC rides above the visors on all our vehicles.

 

[Tamara]

I do have to add that choice of vehicle is also important. I'm not a small guy and I know that getting out of a corvette (especially because of how low they sit) is quite a tactical task. It's almost more difficult than rising from supine simply because the vehicle is its own obstacle.

As an occasional wearer of skirts and lifelong driver of sporty-type automobiles, swing both legs out and stand up. If you put just one leg out, you're going to be off-balance and may crack your melon on the roof.

 

[Kharn]

My parents thought I was a little crazy when I insisted on taking my 94 Blazer to get the AC fixed within days of discovering the system had lost its charge and needed a retrofit (normally my parents live without AC, figuring its not worth fixing). I thought it was well worth the cash to not have to worry about someone reaching in an open window, especially since my truck's power windows stick at the worst times (last time it stuck in the down position, right after I paid a bridge toll in ~45 degree weather, it un-stuck itself after a minute or so, but damn that was cold).

I grew up driving minivans and my truck, so I'm well accustomed to just stepping right out of the vehicle. A quick walk-around & 360 degree scan occur before I get in my vehicle and a 360 degree scan occurs before I get out; at all other times the doors are locked and the windows are up.

I do need to get some pepperspray to keep handy, at least until I get out of Maryland.

Kharn

 

[Bob F.]

Always liked the calculation showing how much better weapon a 3000lb vehicle at 25 mph was than a 200gr slug @1000fps. Something to keep in mind-just as soon (rather) run over an assailant as shoot him, gives Sarah Brady fits!

Son-in-law (BIG BOY) a couple yrs ago driving 18-wheeler stopped at traffic light in world's safest city (DC). Brakes locked and he climbed down to check. Thumpped hard on back of head by unseen assailant and robbed, left in street. (Recovered, OK-changed jobs)

Stay safe!
Bob

 

[Kingcreek]

Always liked the calculation showing how much better weapon a 3000lb vehicle at 25 mph was than a 200gr slug @1000fps. Something to keep in mind-just as soon (rather) run over an assailant as shoot him, gives Sarah Brady fits!

Bob F.- Are you saying I should have put the truck in reverse (thump/thump) to check on perps condition??

I was reacting to the OC and knew I had to put some distance between me and that intersection real quick. I had not previously noticed this guy or 2 others at the curb that may have been together and I wanted OUT of there.
CCWs are not available in my state (IL) so OC seems to be my next best option. I usually carry a knife also, which is legal as long as its not used as a weapon.

 

[clubsoda22]

Also more shooting ports (sunroof, flip-up trunk window) than a Ford Crown Victoria

I like my crown vic. Plus, that V8 power is nice if i want to leave in a hurry versus shoot it out.

 

[Lictalon]

I keep the window cracked and the radio low in traffic. It gets cold in NH, but if I'm not driving at 30+, the window's down. You can hear footsteps sometimes, when you can't see.

I try and make sure to leave enough space to go left/right even if I'm in traffic. I'd rather hop a curb than get car-jacked.

But it gets hard when the car fogs up, and there's a car with its lights just right to blind you. I've undone the seat-belt more than once to get easier access when stuck in traffic, just in case.

My .02

 

[Bob F.]

Kingcreek: Nah, ya' done good, other than getting caught unawares, and despite the things ya' hear around here, that happens all the time. Real hard to maintain situational awareness all the time. You and I and most of the others here have to be a lot better at it than the average sheeple, but I know I'm often "off guard".

The calculation comment was for those other situations when someone jumps in front of the vehicle, or approaches from front/front quarters while you're stopped, assuming you feel threatened.

Back to SA: instincts hopefully will save our butts! Been a few times when for some reason unknown to me I just really perked up, just a bad feeling, not quite ready to draw, but aware of everything around me.

Like Lictalonsays, leave room around ya', too!

Stay safe!
Bob

 

[R-Tex12]

A good book that addresses this topic is Drive to Survive , by Curt Rich. Lots of info.

R-Tex

 

[tommytrauma]

The whole situational awareness thing was my biggest justification for getting a remote entry keychain for my truck. I can unlock my door from a couple of yards away without having to fumble for keys or take my eyes off my surroundings. I hit the lock button as I climb in, but if I were to forget, the doors would lock automatically as soon as I started the truck.

 

[longtom4570]

I always leave enough room in front of me when stopped at light to see the rear tires of the vehicle in front of me, I also try to stay in either the inside or outside lane as opposed to the center lane if at all posible. Dosent always work out tho when you don't pay attention:banghead:

 

[knowledgegreen]

Good info there Longtom

But what if you have to stay stationary in a vehicle in a parking lot. I find myself having to do this quite often when my wife goes inside stores and I stay outside with my infant son because he's asleep. Any pointers?

 

[aroshi]

but if I'm not driving at 30+, the window's down. You can hear footsteps sometimes, when you can't see.

I do this, too. I do it almost all the time, I don't mind the cold. I do mind not being able to hear what's going on outside the vehicle, even if I'm doing 65mph. It drives me up a wall to block myself off from my surroundings when I get into a car/truck.

make sure to leave enough space to go left/right

I think the DMV around here calls that the "bubble" around your car. That's how I drive, actually. I don't like turning, so I use my mirrors all the time to keep track of where everything is around me that I can't see in my peripheral vision.

I, instinctively, lock my car doors when I get in, too. I don't like having cars without power locks anymore.