Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Tactical Shotgun: Benelli M4 or Saiga-12?

Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by HMMurdock, Nov 25, 2010.

?

Benelli M4 Super 90 or Saiga-12?

  1. The sleek and sexy Benelli M4 Super 90 12ga

    61 vote(s)
    61.6%
  2. The rugged and versatile kalashnikov Saiga-12 12ga

    38 vote(s)
    38.4%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. HMMurdock

    HMMurdock Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2006
    Messages:
    431
    Location:
    Indiana, the home of John Dillinger
    I recently had my beloved Remington 870 stolen. So, I want to replace her with the sexiest, expensive high-end "tactical" 12-ga money can buy (in the $2k area). I want a Semi-Auto, and I've narrowed it down to the Benelli M4 and the Saiga-12. I want your advice on which one and why.

    The Benelli M4 would need the mag tube extension added. I'd probably keep the solid stock for now or add the pricey collapser later. I like the M4 Super 90's reputation for reliability and in my arms I feel like I could do some respectable room clearing with her (I am former LE and current military Reserve / in the security business). My experience with Benelli in the past has been great and the M4 Super 90 is King.

    The Saiga-12 would be converted to fit the pistol grip (AK style), maybe be fitted with a side-folding stock at some point as well as maybe the JP Magwell. I am familiar with fielding Kalashnikovs and, again, respect their reliability. The Saiga can fit mags of greater capacity than the M4's tube and can be reloaded "faster", but not topped off as quickly.

    I am sure I would win with either one, but I am curious if any of you have experience regarding these shotties and would be able to shed some light on which route I should take. Thank you for your insight and please make a suggestion and let me know as to why you feel that way.
     
  2. Justin

    Justin Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    19,285
    Location:
    THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL
    The Saigas tend to be finnicky. But if you get one that runs they can be pretty good, and competitive in Open Division in 3 gun.

    The Benelli shotguns are good, though I don't have much experience with the the M4.

    I run an M2 and it's a great shotgun.
     
  3. sansone

    sansone Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2007
    Messages:
    2,173
    Location:
    north florida USA
    the saiga is seriously outclassed by the benelli.. handle them side by side and you will see the difference in fit & finish. Saigas are OK but not LE worthy in my humble opinion
     
  4. lebowski

    lebowski Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2009
    Messages:
    332
    I voted benelli, but personally I think it's insane to spend that much on a tactical shotgun.
     
  5. sansone

    sansone Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2007
    Messages:
    2,173
    Location:
    north florida USA
    yes I agree lebowski, too dear for my wallet also, but the op states price is not the issue
     
  6. HMMurdock

    HMMurdock Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2006
    Messages:
    431
    Location:
    Indiana, the home of John Dillinger
    Cost is definately not an issue. Are the Saiga drums junky? I love the feel of the M4, comparatively, but I like the quick reload concept with the Saiga...
     
  7. PT92

    PT92 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    1,169
    Location:
    Show Me State
    Can't go wrong either way.

    But I don't like the fact that I have to spend several hundred dollars on an M4 mag extension (which may or may not be legal)? With the Saiga, I can get relatively cheap 8+ round magazines buy the bundle and reload on the fly.

    If you run heavy loads (buck/slugs) in the Saiga, it will perform like any other AK (reliable birdshot cycling will require some manipulation of the gas ports etc. but I personally don't buy tacticals to shoot trap/birds--I will use my 1187 for that).

    -Happy Holidays
     
  8. rayman

    rayman Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2007
    Messages:
    253
    Saigas are cool and inexpensive. But if you have them converted and tuned by a good Saiga tuner it'll cost. A magazine fed shotgun is a lot of fun. Go on youtube and see.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 30, 2010
  9. rodinal220

    rodinal220 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2005
    Messages:
    1,290
    Location:
    USA
    I have both a M1S90 and M4S90,I have shot the Saiga.The Saiga is a fun gun,but like most AK variants has many sharp edges,mediocre finish,mediocre sights,mediocre ergonomics.

    The M4S90 is nice gun,but its way overpriced in my opinion.I shoot my 20 year old M1S90 more and it runs like a champ.The M4S90 has "a little" bit softer recoil IMHO,but not huge difference from the M1S90.

    The Benelli recoil(inertia) system is very robust and can take alot of abuse.I run full power buckshot,slugs,and wally world promo loads no problem.It will run Sellier&Bellot 00 buck too.Doesn't like the low recoil/tactical stuff.

    The M4S90 is pretty much the same way,eats promo loads no problem.

    I would buy a good used M1/2 S90 over the more expensive M4.

    I see the Saiga more of a fun gun,or something that needs ALOT of gun smithing/aftermarket parts to make it a bit nicer.
     
  10. dirtymike1

    dirtymike1 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2010
    Messages:
    222
    http://www.tromix.com/saiga.htm

    If you want a Saiga 12, that is the guy to get it from. From what I've learned on this forum, tromix is the go to guy for Saiga 12's hands down. Getting one of his converted guns is on my wish list :)
     
  11. BoKnows

    BoKnows Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2010
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Snohomish, WA
    I'm currently on the Tromix build list. He only builds about 100-200 per year. The next available list will open up sometime in January 2011.

    I chose the S12 over the M4 because of the mag feed. Getting a reputable builder will guarantee a higher standard and better build quality than the average Saiga 12. I was also fortunate to purchase two MD Arms 20-round drums for $75 each (on sale), that's right, 40-rounds of 12-gauge sounds pretty devastating.

    I saw a Tromix Saiga 12 S06 at a gun shop selling for $2500. So the $1400 I'm spending is a bargain compared to what the open market is selling them for.
     
  12. ROCK6

    ROCK6 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Messages:
    233
    Location:
    Georgia
    I have about 2K invested in my Saiga and it's a fun gun! However, for serious social work, I would recommend the Benelli over the Saiga. I must say, mine is a conversion and has worked well with APG mags and MD 20rd drum mags. I've had a few glitches with cheap low-brass shells, but anything in the buckshot class or slugs have run flawlessly. I'm still concerned about longevity of the aftermarket magazines...only time will tell. Another issue is seating mags; it takes a litte more effort to get them seated correctly and most often, I need to make sure the bolt is locked back for a relaible seat.

    I don't have the M4, but I do have an older M1S90. They are dead-on reliable and have been proven in both law enforcement social engagements and in combat.

    I love my Saiga, but I would get a more straight forward and simple pump or autoloader before playing with a Saiga for serious engagements.

    ROCK6
     
  13. rjrivero

    rjrivero Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,064
    I have both, and run both, depending on the gun game at hand. The saiga is a nice platform and the only choice for slapping in magazines for run and gun. They are finicky and you'll have to be willing to spend some time, and money, and often both to get them to run correctly. The bonus is that you can use 20rd drums, mags up to 12 rounds and mag changes can be done pretty quickly.

    The Benelli is a great shooter. It's not as fast to reload, but with a bucket of speed sticks, it can be pretty quick in it's own right. The benelli points better, and I've NEVER had a hiccup with it.

    If you are planning on using this for home defense, the Benelli is my choice. The lower capacity isn't a huge handicap in most home defense situations, and there is no compression of the round in the magazine against the bolt that can impede function as would happen in the Saiga. (Most advocate keeping a saiga 12 for home defense with the bolt locked open and a magazine seated. That way the top round isn't mashing against the bolt, thus deforming.

    The Saiga is definitely MORE FUN on the range. With a Poly Choke, you can do just about anything you want to with that shot gun.
     
  14. Girodin

    Girodin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2008
    Messages:
    5,550
    the thing about saiga's is it is hard to make any blanket statements about them. If you are talking a stock gun then i'd take the benelli any day. Once you start talking about modified saigas there is so much variation its hard to make definative statements.

    A saiga that has as much money into it a benelli is a very fine weapon indeed and will have all of the complaints mentioned thus far addressed.

    I went with a magwell and consider it one of the best modifications I've made. Reloads are notably faster.

    Which I would want might depend on exactly how I was going to be using it.

    I think a tube fed gun is harder to run than a mag fed gun. That could just be me though.

    If we are talking a saiga that runs well and is built to the owners liking it is very different than asking about a box stock gun. The Benelli is the better out of the box choice (unless you buy your s12 from tromix, red jacket or the like). It is more of a known quantity. Saigas have a lot of variation. Mine run like a top and I wouldn't trade it. I am into one 1500-1700 (including all accessories, lights RDS, drum, 10 mags, etc)

    I'd be happy with either but I am a fan of the saiga for my uses. I do not think it is always the best choice per se.
     
  15. Mudinyeri

    Mudinyeri Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2010
    Messages:
    628
    If money was no object, I'd own the M4. Since money is a limited resource (for me), I own a Mossberg 930 SPX.

    :)
     
  16. H7K

    H7K Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2010
    Messages:
    2
    Benelli M4 has always been the ultimate for me!
     
  17. JWJacobVT

    JWJacobVT Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2008
    Messages:
    303
    Location:
    Vermont
    Buy another 870, best Tactical shotgun there is........
    Just saw this ad posted and had to laugh.....

    "Tactical Shotgun wanted. I have a nice remington 870 pump that can take up to a 3 inch shell. The gun has been shot around 100 times and cleaned 3 times. The gun has a wooden stock and forehand and was taken care of. Looking for a tactical shotgun either pump or semi willing to throw in some money on top of my gun. I will sell my gun for 260 Thanks"
     
  18. Mr. T

    Mr. T Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2008
    Messages:
    579
    Location:
    Midwest
    I just bought an H & R semi-auto shottie for $319 about 5 months ago and that gun cycles almost as fast as a Benelli...fast enough that you would be wondering why you spent $2k on the Benelli. It has synthetic furniture and the fit and finish is so good you have to wonder how they can sell this gun for that low of an amount. The gun was made in Turkey...it looks really close to the Stoeger semi-auto shottie and the action is a European action, but the gas system looks the same as the Benelli.
     
  19. Mr. T

    Mr. T Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2008
    Messages:
    579
    Location:
    Midwest
    By the way the weight is extremely light and the balance is respective of a gun much more expensive.
     
  20. True Grit

    True Grit Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2010
    Messages:
    132
    Saiga 12. They just drip with awsomeness and the fear of god! Plus they're pretty darn tough too like there brother the Kalashnikov AK-47, and you get the option of semi or fully auto at anytime. Theres tons of accesories out there for them. Too bad we can't get our hands on the AA-12... I live within a few miles of were they're manufactured at and it kills me!!!
     
  21. Russ Jackson

    Russ Jackson member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    564
    I love my pimped out saiga 12. MD Drums work great and you can pick them up for $75 dollars on sale at MD Arms every now and then. If you add too much crap they get way too heavy especially with a full drum. Always draws a crowd at the range. There are new gas plugs that take care of different loads. Before you put a pistol grip on it try a shotgun with one first because you might hate it. Great Gun!...Russ
     
  22. DAdams

    DAdams Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2007
    Messages:
    3,081
    Location:
    East Tennessee
    Mr.T please be so kind as to provide a link to the SG you are referring to.
    I went to the website and saw nothing remotely similar to the Benelli or Saiga??
     
  23. Stevie-Ray

    Stevie-Ray Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2003
    Messages:
    4,074
    Location:
    Mitchi-gun, the Sunrise Side
    Same here, on both counts.;)
     
  24. Balrog

    Balrog Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2008
    Messages:
    1,986
    To the Benelli fans, what load are you running in your M2's?

    My M2 Tactical will not cycle most of the low recoil loads, though it will cycle the Winchester Ranger and Federal Personal Defense.

    It chokes on Hornady TAP and Speer Lawman
     
  25. rodinal220

    rodinal220 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2005
    Messages:
    1,290
    Location:
    USA
    Balrog,the Benellis,either the inertia(M1/2) or gas(M4) do not function reliably with the low recoil or so called tactical loads.Cheap wally world promo loads run fine in both my M1S90 and M4S90.I find the Sellier&Bellot OO loads recoil less than most American full power OO loads but cycle fine in both my Benellis.
    Also,the interia Benellis do not like alot of crap hung on them.Things like side saddles,flashlights,lasers,etc "may" affect reliability.YMMV.

    The low recoil loads were designed for pump/slide action shotguns,not semi-autos.These loads will not function reliably in my 11-87P as well.

    You want full power loads in buck,slug and shot.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2010
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page