Taking 49 Year Old Novice Shooter to Range:Need Advice

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Winchester 73

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Monday,after work,I'm taking a co-worker to a local indoor range.
He has been asking me to teach him how to shoot his S&W 642 .38 Special,2" barrel snubby he recently bought.He's 49 and has never fired a handgun before,only a rifle and then rarely.
I don't think this is the best gun for a beginner to start off with but thats what he has.Somebody at a gun shop talked him into it.A fine BUG but for a beginner?Anyway,
I have hundreds of rounds of .38 Special ranging from 125 grain JHP up 158 grain LRN.In between a lot of 130 grain Winchester FMJ and 135 Speer JHP.
Recoil will probably be a problem for him as this revolver weighs in at only 19 ounces fully loaded.I'm bringing along my Ruger .357 Magnum GP 100 with a 4" barrel to perhaps smooth the way with .38 loads.He is 5'11" and weighs 150 pounds.
Would any of you have suggestions about the way to proceed loadwise after I go over basic safe gun handling and the 4 rules,etc.
Any advice would be appreciated.
 
I would start by seeing if he can return that snubby. A friend has one of those, I've got an old Colt police .38.

I can shoot mine all day, his makes your hand raw after a few shots.

Horrible gun to learn pistol shooting with, that lightweight snubby .38.

If that isn't an option, well... it's easy to get someone into pistol shooting that has shot rifle before. Most of the initial work is already done. You should be fine, as long as the guy doesn't get disgusted with that .38, which I bet he will.
 
Winchester 73,

First off, thank you for doing this.
Second, I agree a J frame is not the best gun to learn on.

This is where having a J frame snubby in .22 is sooo great!


I would bring a medium frame revolver, preferably a S&W , as it has the same MOA and the cylinders rotate the same way.

A .22 lr , such as the Model 18, to learn , then transition to say a Model 10 with light loads, is what I and mine have done, and actually prefer/ recommend for new shooters.

Then, this is where that snubby J frame in .22 lr is so needed, shoot that, and then transition to his Snubby.

Key points are light loads.
I would bring primer only cases, just getting used to his gun being run, and making noise.

Speer Plastic Training Bullets, if you have some, would be great. These primer only plastic bullets add noise, very little or no recoil, but a projectile is sent downrange.

Baby steps if you will, building upon previous steps, and going back and using ones learned - repetition - building upon.

His gun, with real light loads (reloads), or wadcutters would be my suggestion, and what I do.

Gun fit, oh boy, any chance of having some other stocks that might fit his gun?
Maybe another gun similar to his, with different stocks?

I have found this to be a big plus for a new shooter, for not only gun fit, in the regard of "fit", also fit encompasses other factors and sometimes one "likes" a gun for looks, and it actually does fit the hand better, and feeling good about looks, assists with all this.


Again, thank you for taking the time and doing this.

Steve
 
Do you own a .22 pistol or revolver? If not see if you can't rent or borrow one. Start him on that to learn the fundamentals. Is the 642 an "Airweight"? If it's a steel frame, you might start with some 100grn wadcutters. The Ruger with light target loads would be a better start for center fire, work up to heavy SD loads in that, then start with the light stuff in the 642.

(edit)SM beat me to the punch. He has some very good advice there.
 
Agreed. Folks forget that snubbies are TOUGH pistols on which to learn sound, basic handgunning technique, ESPECIALLY light-weight snubbies. Regardless of their current popularity, experts still agree that they're best left in the hands of well-experienced pistoleros.

If you can't use a .22, begin with light target .38 spl. loads from your Ruger GP100. The weight & solid feel, along with the diminutive recoil, should give your novice a fine starting point.
 
As said above, start the man on a .22 LR handgun. Learn the fundamentals, safety, accuracy, etc., with the .22 LR.

Not much recoil, not too loud (use "eyes and ears," no matter), and it doesn't cost a lot to learn to shoot. 500 rounds cost $15.00 or so.

Then, move the guy up, but trying to learn to shoot handguns with a 2" .38 Sp., is sheer folly.

FWIW.

L.W.
 
Pre-range go over the 4 safety rules, then discuss his gun.

don't tell him he go screwed by the gun shop. Maybe he did. But maybe he was unwilling to listen to their advice. It seems a lot of novices see a small gun and think 'small recoil'

Tell him nothing in this world is free, especially in physics. Tell him every gun design has strengths and weaknesses. Say that a revolver is simple, rugged, reliable, and easier to learn, and stands up to neglect better than semiautos, but most semiautos have a capacity advantage, and can reload quicker.

Then tell him that a small light gun with a short barrel has the advantage of fitting in a pocket easy, concealing on the ankle, and it is light to carry around all day. That is why it was he gun most detectives in real life and in TV carried. Explain that a longer barrel is easier to aim, a bigger gun kicks less, but the whole thing is heavier and longer, making it more of a hassle to carry, you can't easily slip it in your pocket, and carry it in a holster all day, it feels like a boat anchor.

In other words, don't belittle his choice. Show him what is choice is good for, so at least he can think 'well this gun is good for X but not Y, so I didn't make a fool of myself buying it, even if I decide get something different'

then, get him shooting a .22LR revolver if you can, transition him to a medium frame 4 inch revolver, and THEN to his, but again state that it is a close range gun, he'd be better shooting it only a little because of the recoil and practicing more on the other two.

Now, I know there is a lot of you thinking he should just trade in the snub and get himself a 4 inch model 10, and that would be an accepable option.

However, an equally acceptable, maybe even better option, would be to keep the snub, and purchase a 4" or longer .22 revolver for practice. This gets him shooting more, which is a real plus. Once you have two, and shoot at the range 3 or 4 times, maybe he will decide to add a 3rd gun. Or maybe not. Maybe someday the fact that the snub is easy to conceal will come in handy. How many times have we heard stories of Average Joe with no CCW, gets a call from his girlfriend that she is worried about somehing, so conceals anyways for a day or so hanging out at her place, escorting her to her car or whatever. (Sometimes when the law doesn't allow us to do the right thing, we choose to break the law.)

Sometimes a snub dropped into the pocket is the perfect thing when you hear that late night knock on the door, and the big 686 with the 6" barrel just seems too much...and pullls the bathrobe pocket way to obviously!
 
Hey, it's a perfectly good gun...

1) See if you can borrow or rent a .22... Preferably a revolver with at least 6" or barrel.

Where are you located?

2) If you can't, ask if they've got any wadcutter loads at the range. You want your basic 148 grain bullet with 2.8 grains of bullseye... Light recoil, and even a novice can control 'em, even in a light frame pistol.

Ah... Scroll up - Miami...

Any members here feel like a shooting session?
 
Oh yeah...

"Dude, it's gonna make loud noises (this is why I'm making you wear both earplugs and these earmuffs), and it's gonna kick and buck around. These little guns can be a handful. But I know you can handle it, or you better turn in your man-card."

First shot, just put one in, and don't tell him which. Repeat that a few times, and have him concentrate on squeeze-click... Surprise is okay. Heck, it's expected!

Prepare him, get him laughing (isn't this supposed to be fun too?), and then get him used to noise and recoil. But for Bob's sake, don't start him on a 110 grainer with a full load of powder...
 
Thank you all for this great advice!
I don't own a .22 but the range has them for rental.I've been there many times.
So we'll rent the .22 and start out with that.He wants to keep that snubby so I won't try to talk him into switching and it is a fine gun once he's accustomed.
Then maybe the light .38 loads in the Ruger.2 hour session I guess ,will be enough for starters.
Then in a few weeks move him along to the snubby with the practice rounds.Everything very gradual as you all suggest.Make him realize this is a difficult discipline to master.
Even at 49 I'm happy to get a new convert.It's never too late.
I really appreciate the fine ideas.Feel a lot more confident on how to bring him along now.
Of course he wants his wife to be my next student!Guess its worth the time.
 
Winchester, You're a good man.

Do you know anyone who reloads? If you and your friend, and the reloader, are willing to accept the measured risk that comes with shooting someone else's handloads, downloaded handloads are an excellent way to make that snubnose pistol into a pussycat.
 
Thank you,Wayne.
No I don't know any reloaders.I wish I did.It seems to be something very few of us in South Florida have gotten into.It would certainly make it a lot easier firing that snubby with placid loads.
I'll talk to the range manager for suggustions tomorrow.He might be able to help and suggest a reloader that he knows.
 
I've got a 642 I've been learning to shoot ....

.... had a 9mm for a year before that. 642 is a difficult gun to shoot, you have to acclimate to the heavy double action pull, and the recoil is brisk. To tell the truth, it's probably too late to do what would have helped him if you're going to shoot today. And that's plenty of dry-firing. Not only will it loosen up the trigger, it will improve finger strength. He has to learn how to 'stage' the trigger at first - i.e. pull through the 'loose' part at the front end of the pull, then smoothly through the second (firing) stage. After a while, he'll be able to get through the whole motion smoothly, but you have to build up to it.
 
I'd start with .38 special through the .357, the lightest grain bullets you have. Then maybe a +p or heavier bullet. Tell him to expect a recoil similar to that when he shoots the lightest .38's in the snubby.
 
Bring a .22. I bring a Ruger MkII 22/45 that I find ideal for training.

Here's my typical training day for new shooters:

1. Recite The Four Rules. I have a little poem that I make them sing. Importance of ears and eyes.
2. Teach them how the weapon functions, takes away the mystery.
3. How to handle the weapon (picking it up, manipulating it, reloading it, inter alia), we do it empty handed, no gun, then dry.
4. How to shoot, the standing position, we do it empty handed then dry.
5. Explain sight picture and trigger control/reset.
6. We shoot one round, then several.
7. Continue to shoot, then take breaks to go back over what we have learned.
8. How to clean weapon and then pick up our trash (including empties, teaches good habit and not to be range slob).

Be calm, be patient, don't let him handle the weapon right away.
 
Ruger mark II is awesome. Any how i bet we are a little late. Hasnt read the post since last night. Good luck winchester> please let us know ehat happened
 
I second Bogie's reccomendation regarding loading only 2 or 3 at a time. It's a good way to tell if he's developing a bad flinch.

Also, seeing as how this is an indoor range, I would highly suggest doubling up on the hearing protection. Get some cheap earplugs to put in under your ear-muffs. Personally, I really dislike shooting in crowded indoor ranges. Seems like I always end up next to the guy with a .44 magnum. I can only imagine how much this would annoy and distract someone who is completely new to shooting.
 
Winchester gave you some very good advice on the skip-loading drill. I have gotten shooters that were slinging lead all over the paper to shooting resepectable groups with that drill. I use a .357 with .38 Special lightly loaded wad cutters. I load 1, 2 or 3 chambers and the rest with empty cases. When the gun doesn't go bang, but the gun moves, call him on it. "The weapon didn't fire. Why did you move?" Get him to shoot each shot like it was going to go 'click', and he will probably do alright for the weapon he chose.

Use a heavy framed 22 or 38 if you can. Starting off with a light framed gun that generates a lot of uncomfortable recoil can spoil the experience for him and make him not desire to come back.

With a new student, I usually stand just to one side of them so I can remind them to point their muzzle down range (if they forget), until they demonstrate they will do it on their own. I don't remember how many of mine start to hit their mark and get excited, turn around (gun and all) to tell someone!
 
With a new student, I usually stand just to one side of them so I can remind them to point their muzzle down range (if they forget), until they demonstrate they will do it on their own. I don't remember how many of mine start to hit their mark and get excited, turn around (gun and all) to tell someone!
Click to expand...
Good advice, I almost got shot with my own AR because of this phenomenon, and that was a physics professor who almost shot me. Goes to show, you must teach safety to anyone and everyone. He seriously had 1 round left, (chambered of course), had the gun pointed at my stomach, with his finger on the trigger. He had the biggest smile on his face... until he saw the look on mine.
 
Teaching:

1. teach him about the dangers of "sweeping" with a loaded gun

2. Make sure he uses a belt holster to keep the gun out of hand when not in actual use

3. Discourage "excitability" in terms of guffawing, shouting, jumping up and down and the usual "sweeping" of everyone in sight.

4. POSTURE. He can try the walker stance, or align his shoulders to target with feet shoulder width apart, or try two handed or just one handed and even use sights, (which is not how I shoot, but....some might like it).

5. Give tips on cleaning. I doubt if he has a clue what to do. :)
 
Eltejon is correct on the rules. Starting with a 22lr also is a good idea, then transitioning to the GP100 with 38s. I have had success with small framed individuals (5"7' and 125lbs (yes, male)) with a GP100 and a 586 with 38s. The medium heavy (GP, Lframe) fit the hands of roughly average height males well and have enough heft so 38 special loads are comfortable, and you can easily transition to the self defense loads in 357mag. I have also noticed that if other shooters on the range are into the serious hunting loads (heavy 44mag, 45lc and 454 casull), it can help new shooters get used to the noise (just make sure that your new shooter knows that noisy is normal-and especially if someone is shooting 454 casull--keep some space so muzzle blast is noise and not a real noticable breeze). Minor point--have your friend wear a baseball cap or boonie cap (so he doesn't have hot brass from a semiauto from further down bouncing off his head).
 
nuttin to add to above posts ,but my hat is off to you sir!!!!!
have fun & be safe Winchester 73 ,pay back is seein a new shooter born!!!!


GP100man
 
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