Talk to me about WWII Italian Carcano Rifles? Good/Bad

[Rockrivr1]

I know someone who is looking to sell a WWII 1941 Italian Carcano Cavalry Carbine and am wondering if it's a decent rifle to add to my WWII collection of firearms. He's looking for $400 and the rifle is in good shape with a good bore and strong rifling.

I've never shot one of these but it's an interesting looking rifle. Are they any good or should I stay away from it like the plague?

 

[flightsimmer]

I had one when I was a kid. It has what they call a gain twist rifling in other words the rifling starts out slow and speeds up as it exits a barrel.

I bought the carbine and a bunch of ammo with my paper route money, by the way I'm not even sure if you can get that ammo anymore.

 

[theotherwaldo]

I've never paid that much for a Carcano. but they are interesting.
you might check to see if it is Finn property marked with a SA cartouche.
I have a number of them, ranging from an original Model 91 to a Japanese Type I.
Ammo can be a problem but they are often good shooters.

 

[KY DAN]

It's a gun...... a poorly designed gun but never the less still a gun.

With standard loads and projectiles which fit the bore minute of 100% ipsc target at 100 meters is possible.

I bought mine in 2017 for $130plus ky tax

I would not pay a penny more for one, with that say military collectors lose their minds with implements of human death, disfigurement, destruction.

So what so I know?

 

[Rockrivr1]

PPU offers 6.5x52mm Carcano ammo for sale. Midway and other vendors have it for sale. A little pricy but it's out there. $27 a box of 20 139 Gr FMJ or $30 for a box of 20 123 Gr Soft Point

 

[Rockrivr1]

I bought mine in 2017 for $130plus ky tax

Wish I could find one for $130. Similar rifles on Gunbroker and Guns International are going for $600. Reminds me of when you could get a Swiss rifle for $150. Now they are dried up and $600 plus for them all day long.

 

[Roverguy]

Is it to shoot or look at. The Carcano was a good infantry rifle for Italy in the day. It was relatively simple and inexpensive to manufacture, used a round that had decent ballistics and terminal performance for the time, and was shootable by the Italian squaddie. However, while all other 6.5mm rifles are a nominal .264” groove, the Carcano has a .268” groove diameter. Consequently, unless using ancient milsurp dug up from a ditch in Somalia or laying hands on some PPU ammunition, this is a problem.

For me, a Carcano wouldn’t be worth $400 but that doesn’t seem unreasonable at all if it’s in good shape.

 

[mokin]

When I read the OP I thought $400 was steep but after looking online, it looks like that's what they go for....

I like mine. Ammunition is expensive and rare, and you need to load it with a six round en bloc clip which aren't cheap but can be found online as can the ammo. As mentioned earlier, it uses a .268 diameter bullet but with proper bullets mine is a good shooter. It's a light rifle with a smooth action and gentle recoil.

 

[.308 Norma]

I know someone who is looking to sell a WWII 1941 Italian Carcano Cavalry Carbine and am wondering if it's a decent rifle to add to my WWII collection of firearms. He's looking for $400 and the rifle is in good shape with a good bore and strong rifling.

I've never shot one of these but it's an interesting looking rifle. Are they any good or should I stay away from it like the plague?

I bought the carbine and a bunch of ammo with my paper route money, by the way I'm not even sure if you can get that ammo anymore.

Dang, I'm old!
As near as I can remember, it was 1959 when my dad pulled a Carcano from a 55-gallon drum full of them in the Army/Navy surplus store near Brigham City, Utah. I think he paid $8.00 for it. He cleaned it up, shortened the stock a bit, had a cheap scope mounted on it, and gave it to my mom to use for her "deer rifle." And she did - both she and Dad killed several mule deer with it over the years. I definitely remember bragging to my buddies in high school about my mom having a rifle "just like Oswald's."
The rifle disappeared many years ago - probably while I was away in the Navy. I wish I still had it (even if it was nothing more than a "keepsake"), but I can't see myself paying much over a hundred bucks for another one.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

It needs a clip (correct term here) to feed ammo, so make sure you can get a few of those along with the ammo.

I'm with most of the above, they have gone up a lot in $$$$ over recent years.

 

[Ignition Override]

.308 Norma: That 1959 price looks very appealing and that must have been fun with those barrels, but I'm glad that my recent pay before retirement was No where near 1959 (or '79, '89) rates.

OP: If somebody can find Carcano ammo for a good fraction less than today's .308 ammo price$, the rifle might have some solid appeal.

In 1962-63, you could take your Mannlicher-Carcano on city buses in Texas to go practice in river beds.

Wow: Not a surprise, in today's commercial context (I stopped reloading several years ago) :

6.5x52mm Carcano Ammo | Cheap 6.5x52mm Carcano Ammunition - AmmoSeek.com 2023

 

[PistoleroWadcutterGANG]

I'll be the wet blanket, NO. Poor replacement parts available. Most have bores that wouldn't be able to shoot worth a darn. NOT known for accuracy. NO body goes around saying I won my local clubs MilSurp bolt action league shoot with my Carcan-can't. To get the most out of your Carcano bore you're looking at casting for bore size. Which means added cost to supply ammo. Most are pretty beat up. Am I biased, yes.

 

[tark]

It's a gun...... a poorly designed gun but never the less still a gun.

With standard loads and projectiles which fit the bore minute of 100% ipsc target at 100 meters is possible.

I bought mine in 2017 for $130plus ky tax

I would not pay a penny more for one, with that say military collectors lose their minds with implements of human death, disfigurement, destruction.

So what so I know?

Obviously you don't know much about Carcano milsurps. I have owned several that shot into two inches @ 100 yards, with the correctly sized .268" bullets. They are not poorly designed, quite the opposite, at least from a military point of view. They are simple, easy to manufacture, robust and rugged. Not as pretty as a 98 Mauser, perhaps, but just as capable in it's intended role. The action is more than strong enough for its intended cartridge. As a military weapon it was as good as most of its contemporaries.

$400 ? Considering that Nagant revolvers used to sell for $79; and Mosins for about the same; and a good SKS was $129... that seems about right.

 

[doubleh]

I'll be the wet blanket, NO. Poor replacement parts available. Most have bores that wouldn't be able to shoot worth a darn. NOT known for accuracy. NO body goes around saying I won my local clubs MilSurp bolt action league shoot with my Carcan-can't. To get the most out of your Carcano bore you're looking at casting for bore size. Which means added cost to supply ammo. Most are pretty beat up. Am I biased, yes.

I'm with you. They weren't much when brand new. I wouldn't keep one if it were a gift.

 

[Ignition Override]

Sidenote question: did Italy use Carcanos as their standard rifle against Austrian forces in the Alps (Nord Tirol) in WW1, if not earlier ?

 

[Mars5l]

Well they have a lot of history to them. The ammo is available, it's on my watch list on ammoseek and looks like PPU released a recent run because everyone has it. I wonder if the new PPU is correctly sized. If not Steinel had the correct sized ammo, just costs a bit more I have 2 carbines, I really want a short rifle or long rifle

 

[PistoleroWadcutterGANG]

Sidenote question: did Italy use Carcanos as their standard rifle against Austrian forces in the Alps (Nord Tirol) in WW1, if not earlier ?

Honestly Ignition: Europe and Italy at that time were still pretty financial strapped. Most militaries used whatever they had at the time and pushed old materials on hand into service like anyone would. So, a safe bet is. If they had them available, they did. sincere regards.

 

[Terry G]

Like this one?

 

[theotherwaldo]

Yes, Italy used Carcanos against Austria.
I've heard reports of folks finding Carcanos in the glacial fields, along with unrecovered bodies.

-And I can vouch for the accuracy of some of those old carbines.
I've eaten many a squirrel taken by my Dad with one of those, back during the bad old days... .

 

[CapnMac]

Carcanos get beat up a lot in popular option--often because there actually are a bunch of bubba-beat-up examples out there to "prove the rule."

Find a decent one, with the correct ammo, and they are not bad. The 6.5carc carbines balance rather nicely, and the 6.5 is pleasant to shoot, even in the short carbines.

You do need en bloc clips for best operation. Those are hen's teeth--but the aftermarket is responding with 3d printed versions, and there are some decent stamped metal clips available in Europe.

Are they as nice as a Ruger American Rifle in a modern 6.5 caliber? No. The Carano is a military rifle meant to serve from the top of the Alps to the Horn of Africa, from horseback, or in a truck, or rucking up a mountain.

 

[tark]

Sidenote question: did Italy use Carcanos as their standard rifle against Austrian forces in the Alps (Nord Tirol) in WW1, if not earlier ?

Pretty sure they did. The rifle was adopted in 1891. But I've been wrong before.

 

[Ignition Override]

To clarify, the only factor stopping me regarding the rifle is —current ammo prices—

But if a nice Carcano were well under $1,000
( molto bene ), this could offset high ammo prices..

 

[Col. Harrumph]

ISTR Ian thought well of the Carcanos, but I'm too lazy to try to find the video.

 

[Ignition Override]

Col. Harumph delegated this duty to his subordinate: from Forgotten Weapons:

M38 Carcano: Best Bolt Rifle of World War Two? - YouTube

 

[jobu07]

Lot of responses here. I'll chime in with a few points.

Gain twist rifling only applied to 1891 long rifles. The 91/24 carbine (distinguished by it's long rifle rear sight on the short barrel) is a cut down 1891 long rifle that no longer has gain twist rifling. Many speculate those don't shoot well as their rifling is now... not so good. I have two that shoot exceptionally well. Probably the outliers.

Only the M38 short rifles in 7.35 will be SA marked as Finn property. No M38 short rifles in 6.5 will have that marking.

These rifles have a very strange sight alignment where the front sight is buried deep in the rear V to hit. Couple with the rifles having a battle zero of 300 M and accuracy can be a problem as they will impact very high at 100. This can be overcome with a Mauser front sight blade from Sarco or Numrich filed to suit.

For a 1941 date M91 cavalry carbine it needs to be in new unissued condition, with accessories at $400. Of course the price is only going up as time goes on. Ammo is expensive and clips are pricey, but reusable.