Target critique wanted

[Adam5]

I want some critique on these targets. This is the second range outing with my Sig SP2022 9mm. The first trip was 110 rounds. This one was 150. I am still getting used to the trigger and a slightly modified grip to keep my thumb off of the slide lock.

My first target of the day was 50 rounds of Remington UMC 'leadless" 115gr at 15 feet.




My second target was 50 rounds of Federal 115gr FMJ at 15 feet.




Target 3 was 50 rounds of the Remington "leadless" 115gr again, but at 25 feet.

 

[GyMac]

Good for starting out! You are probably going to have to move that rear sight a bit to the right. If it's that far off at 15 ft, it's way off. Also, try a smaller target, like a 6 inch paper plate and focus on the front sight. Groups open up when you are not looking at the front sight.

 

[Adam5]

I think shooting left is a grip issue. I had to modify my grip to keep my thumb off of the slide lock

 

[tuj]

you got the bad guy.

 

[Vol46]

Shooting high left like that can be caused by " leaning into the gun" in anticipation of the recoil, or not following through. Try to gradually squeeze the trigger, so that you are surprised when the gun fires. Focus hard on the front sight, & try to keep the sights aligned on the bull even after the gun has fired ( you won't because of recoil, but it is a good thought to avoid jerking as you shoot). You might also try changing the position of your finger on the trigger so that you are pressing it straight back.

 

[foxtail207]

Those guys look pretty darn dead to me.

 

[herrwalther]

The up and down spread is a result of not firing during the natural pause in your breathing cycle after you exhale. Or you are just trying to shoot out as much as the target as you can. Either way, some very good shooting.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I think it is your grip too...shooting to the left

It looks like you are over squeezing with your finger tips and varying your grip pressure as you press the trigger.

How about a picture of the grip you're using?

 

[C0untZer0]

I think it would be more helpful if you only shot 5-round shot groups and numbered the shots first through last.

 

[9mmepiphany]

^^^ that actually would help quite a bit.

Too many rounds on a target tend to hide what is really happening.

What is really helpful, especially at these short distances, is a series of five 1" dots...just firing one shot at each dot tells us much more than what we're seeing

 

[CA Raider]

different people are going to give you different feedback.
my own viewpoint about shooting has changed recently ... based on the idea of what "effective shooting" means. I tend to try to shoot very accurately. But in point of fact, if you got every shot into the red zone - you would be fine. Your real opponent is going to have problems if you get 2-3 shots into the red.

Therefore, my approach with those targets would be to ask - when are the stray shots taking place and why? Slow things down and take a careful look at when your shots are going into the red (good), and when they are hitting the black (stray shots). The shots in the black represent a "loss of focus" which could be caused by a change in the grip on the gun, a change in your shooting stance, or some other reason where you are losing mental focus. Try to eliminate the shots into the black. Go slower, and work towards consistency. Your goal should be no stray shots. Take time to analyze each stray shot and work out what is wrong. It really does help to have an experienced pair of eyes watching you when you are doing this ... an experienced shooter can see a lot that you might not notice.

good luck. patience and practice will be great assets.

CA R

 

[HammsBeer]

When I shoot Sigs, I place my support hand thumb over the shooting hand thumb so my thumb knuckles are next to each other. That keeps them away from the slide stop lever. I haven't found any kind of thumbs forward grip on a sig that works reliably. Just my 2 cents...

 

[9mmepiphany]

I haven't found any kind of thumbs forward grip on a sig that works reliably. Just my 2 cents...

This one works for most people

 

[Adam5]

That is pretty much the grip that I am adjusting to. I have normally kept my strong hand thumb under my weak hand thumb, but caught myself inadvertently holding down the slide lock.

 

[HammsBeer]

9mmepiphany, if the thumbs forwards on Sigs works for you great. I use it with the Rugers, Glock, XDm, but my smaller hands I simply cannot get my strong hand thumb far enough away from the slide stop lever to not cause an empty chamber malfunction.

 

[ratt_finkel]

Please don't take this as anything but constrictive criticism. My ranges minimum distances are 3 yards and 7 yards. Or 9 feet and 21 feet respectably. Honestly, even at 7 yards with pocket pistols and mouse guns 2" or smaller groupings should be easy.

That being said, it looks like you are very nearly there. Notice most of your hits are either just slightly low or slightly high. But aligned with the bulls-eye. This is from recoil anticipation. The high shots are from breaking the wrist up. The low shots are from pushing the gun down just as the trigger breaks in an effort to counter the recoil.

On the 15 ft targets its not as noticeable, but there are some low-left shots. Which as you moved the target back are more identifiable. This is a classic example of jerking the trigger. We are all guilty of this, myself included. And is one of the hardest hurdles to overcome in accurate handgun shooting.

I would recommend adding more support from your left hand. More than likely your left hand is not far enough forward. When it is in the right position, you will be less likely to push left with your trigger or right side hand. In essence no matter what you do with your left or right side hand, the gun is essentially sandwiched between them and can only move up or down.

Keep up the good shooting. And someone else mentioned 5 shot groups. This is an excellent idea. Hard to be critical of your shooting when you can't tell where all the shots are.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

As suggested, fewer shots will help you evaluate your issues. If the range you use allows it, get some targets off the internet (each printed on an 8"x11" sheet of paper) and shoot 5-10 shots per target. Start closer and work out.

The Bullseye Site's error analysis chart is helpful. While this chart was probably first intended for one-handed shooting, the shooter's strong hand remains a big influence on the results, and some of the things shown here also apply when shooting with a two-handed grip.

Here's a link to one of many copies of the wheel, shown below, , which addresses/explains issues and how to correct them.

http://www.bullseyepistol.com/training.htm

Here's the WHEEL OF MISFORTUNE itself, but DO read the information about the wheel and how to interpret it, at the link above. Other tips are included.

 

[9mmepiphany]

9mmepiphany, if the thumbs forwards on Sigs works for you great. I use it with the Rugers, Glock, XDm, but my smaller hands I simply cannot get my strong hand thumb far enough away from the slide stop lever to not cause an empty chamber malfunction.

Granted, I don't have shorter fingers, but if you just rest your strong thumb on the back of your support thumb, it should easily clear the Slide Stop



The only semi-auto pistol that I don't use this grip with is the 1911...because correct technique with that requires that the thumb ride the thumb safety

 

[ratt_finkel]

Walt, thanks for the pic, I couldn't seem to find it.

The Bullseye Site's error analysis chart is helpful. While this chart was probably first intended for one-handed shooting, the shooter's strong hand remains a big influence on the results, and some of the things shown here also apply when shooting with a two-handed grip.

Bingo. This was what I was trying to emphasize. Even with two hands, most people shooting with a dominant right hand tend to also dominate grip and control with the right hand. Thus we see shots veer to the left. There should be more pressure coming from the left hand than the right to obtain equilibrium and help prevent unnecessary side-to-side movement.

After that, focus on the front sight, and pull consistently smooth all the way until the shot surprises you. If you can do all of that right, you will hit the X every time you squeeze the trigger.

I know all of this, and many competent shooters do too. The hard part is in the execution. That's also the fun part

 

[Adam5]

I ended up selling the Sig. After a few more range trips, it just didn't work for me.

I replaced it with a RIA 1911. 1911's have always worked well with me.

This is the result of 25 rounds at 25 feet.

 

[Trent]

Hey, you flinched once.

Good shooting.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I replaced it with a RIA 1911. 1911's have always worked well with me.

This is the result of 25 rounds at 25 feet.

Not everyone can shoot SIGs, sometimes it is just easier to change to a different gun...but the 2022 is capable of the same accuracy as your RIA.

Take note that you are still experiencing vertical stringing of the group, besides the flinched shot, so all the technique advice can still be useful

 

[sauer1911]

The groups look good! less rounds will tell the story easier when you start to improve.

When I first got my Sig 1911 TTT, it shot awful! but after about 3 trips to the range it came around. Hehe, everything was low and left. As I got use to it, trigger, and balance the shots came around.

It is now my IDPA go to CDP gun!

btw, I once saw someone shooting for the first time. He was pretty cocky for someone who has never shot before. I showed him how to hold the Glock 17 properly, keep the strong hand clear of the slide so as not to get the double slice on the web of the hand, and so on.

He takes the pistol, with both hands, kinda does a lil jump step down to a slight crouch, fires the gun and slumps to the wall. I'm thinking he got some shrapnel from another shooter.

Nope! He put his weak hand thumb up on the slide, it caught his nail and SPLIT IT all the way down to the quick!!

He had a great story to tell his mates back in Australia! hehe

YOU GOTTA BE SAFE! Happy new year!!

 

[Trent]

Regarding the vertical stringing 9mmepiphany brought up;

Are you focusing your eye on the front sight every time you shoot? If your eyes are focusing on your target instead of on the front sight, it can cause vertical stringing because your eye won't be able to properly align the front sight in the notch.

And is the tension between your hands even and balanced, firm, but not overly tight? If you are "pulling" with your support hand or "pushing" with your gun hand, it can cause vertical stringing as well. (Many weaver stance shooters suffer from this malady because the bent support arm makes it natural to pull down slightly, which causes the gun to break low from point of aim in varying degrees)

Just some suggestions.

 

[Eb1]

I say it is your trigger finger pressing the muzzle left. I have this problem with my 9mm. I have to work hard not to do it with any auto loader to be honest.