Target size indirectly proportional to group size.

[davek]

Does this happen to anyone else? If I'm trying to hit a small target, my groups are disappointing, however if I'm trying to hit the middle of a large target at the same distance, my groups are more respectable.

For example, a B27 target with dominant concentric circles and the little X in the middle = bad group.

Whereas an IDPA target where the circles aren't obvious where I'm just trying to hit center mass instead of that little X = good group.

The only difference I can tell is that when shooting at a larger target, it's like I point instead of aim (especially when doing an action pistol stage)...but that seems counter-intuative. I would think I'd have worse results, not better.

I've noticed this with both pistols and rifles.

Any thoughts?

 

[Monkeyleg]

I know many here ascribe to the "aim small, miss small" theory, but I've had experiences similar to yours. Perhaps the smaller target causes me/you to over-concentrate to the point where fixation with the smaller target is actually detrimental.

Someone on THR once mentioned that 85% of the time, you're already actually on target, and the rest of your concentration should be on grip, breathing, etc. When I keep that number in mind, it seems to help.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

There are two different problems here -- holding and letoff, on the one hand, and aiming on the other.

A large target, especially for handguns, helps you with holding and letoff. If you try to hold too "fine" you wind up jerking and committing other faults. In the old days in the Army, we'd turn bullseye targets around and shoot at the blank backs -- telling the troops "just try to put it in the middle somewhere." They'd make better scores than with the bullseye facing them.

Now, if you SOLVE the holding and letoff problem -- for example with a bench rest, then a small aiming point reduces errors in aiming. As Kenny Jarret says, to test accuracy, "shoot at a bullet hole."

 

[HSMITH]

Davek, I have had quite a few students that do what you noticed. I call it 'steering' the shot, they are working too hard at it plain and simple. They don't do the 'front sight-press-watch it hit'. What you are noticing is caused by trying to have PERFECT sight alignment during the release, rather than just a 'good' steady sight picture you are trying to correct every tiny little error of sight alignment. Over correcting is why groups get larger, and the tension in your small muscles that goes with it also causes shaking and fatigue quickly. Just relax and shoot, groups will shrink.

 

[mete]

Perhaps with the small target you're focusing your eyes on the target and the big target you're focusing on the front sight as you should .

 

[halvey]

I think mete said it best.

The other thing you may want to try is putting a small target over a big target. I tend to focus on the target (I think its a safety thing - know your backstop), but when I use a big sheet of paper behind my cheap 8.5x11 targets, my groups are better.

FWIW

 

[Pete45]

Davek,
My experience is the opposite. My groups are better with smaller targets. I mainly shoot at distances of 30 feet or less. I started shooting with targets having a circular red area about 7 inches in diameter with white rings marked 10, 9, 8, 7, 6. Probably not the best target for self-defense distances. I was a little disappointed with my groups using those.

I was at the range with my Dad one day early on in my "shooting career". He saw me getting frustrated with my groups using those targets. He handed me a 3 inch diameter circle cut out of colored paper and I taped it to the white back of the target - centered in the target area. I proceeded to fire a full mag with all rounds landing in the 3 inch circle. I felt better after that. Using small targets has been helping me improve since I started shooting 6 months ago.

- Pete45

 

[bountyhunter]

My experience is the opposite. My groups are better with smaller targets.

Me too. If you are blowing flyers aiming at a smaller target, I will say it's 99.99% likely the small target is messing with your mind. You are trying to nail the trigger when the sights are dead on line and that makes you yank the trigger which REALLY sends the shots off into another zip code. Focus entirely on trigger pull and watch the groups come back down to normal size (or smaller).

 

[DMK]

For example, a B27 target with dominant concentric circles and the little X in the middle = bad group.

Whereas an IDPA target where the circles aren't obvious where I'm just trying to hit center mass instead of that little X = good group.

For me, when shooting a rifle at distance, a smaller target definately helps. However, when shooting a pistol (15-25 yards), the actual size doesn't seem to matter much. A less defined target helps me.

One of my favorites has two 6" black circles with smaller very dark grey circles in the center. When I focus on the front sight, I can't even make out the grey against the black background.

 

[cratz2]

Not me... with slow fire, I always shoot better at a smaller target. I do pretty much all of my slow fire shooting at a 50 yard small bore rifle target which I believe has a 5" black.

I know shooting my 22 revolver at 100 yards from a rest, my groups are dramatically better with about a 5" black than at an 8.5x11" black.

 

[Moparmike]

The weird thing for me is I do better with a handgun on non-paper targets. I can keep my groups inside of 1/3 an AOHELL CD at 10yds but on an 8x11.5 paper @ 7yds I am all over it.