I am considering purchasing a revolver. This is a first for me since I've always shot rifles. Living in the southeast with snakes and bobcats, I'm considering the Taurus4510 tracker-.45/410 chamber. Has anyone had any experiance with this particular model ? Any advice on Taurus and their revolvers would be appreciated!
Taurus 4510 tracker
- Thread starter 22cal
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Stainz
Member
Welcome to the forum, 22cal!
The Taurus 4410, aka 'The Judge', is reviewed favorably in the latest NRA 'American Rifleman' issue. It has a 2.5" .410 chamber. They reportedly will have a 3" version, known as the 4510, this fall. Somehow, they interest me!
Stainz
The Taurus 4410, aka 'The Judge', is reviewed favorably in the latest NRA 'American Rifleman' issue. It has a 2.5" .410 chamber. They reportedly will have a 3" version, known as the 4510, this fall. Somehow, they interest me!
Stainz
I'm not sure this is a wise choice for a first revolver. It gets mixed reviews, especially as far as accuracy is concerned. Personally, a 357 is far more versatile. You there are 38 spl shot loads you can shoot from a 357 for snakes, though you'll have to be pretty close for the shot to be effective.
As far as Taurus goes, their revolvers are good values. I have a 605 (2" 357) and have am about to acquire a 6" Tracker in 357. I think a Tracker sounds like a better choice for you. If the big bore of the 4510 attracts you, the Tracker is available in 44 mag, and shot shells are available for that cartridge as well. I chose 357 because I already shoot, and load, 357.
As far as Taurus goes, their revolvers are good values. I have a 605 (2" 357) and have am about to acquire a 6" Tracker in 357. I think a Tracker sounds like a better choice for you. If the big bore of the 4510 attracts you, the Tracker is available in 44 mag, and shot shells are available for that cartridge as well. I chose 357 because I already shoot, and load, 357.
44and45
Member In Memoriam
What I've read about the 4510 its touted as a defense weapon, not a snake gun.
Using .44 mag or .45 Colt Tracker with snake loads makes more sense to me.
Plus, the alternate regular calibers are more useful.
Jim
Below is .45 Colt Tracker...
Using .44 mag or .45 Colt Tracker with snake loads makes more sense to me.
Plus, the alternate regular calibers are more useful.
Jim
Below is .45 Colt Tracker...
Guys, thanks for the info. One more thought. The reason I thought the Taurus may be more effective on snakes is because it is a smoothbore. The shot would group tighter than from a barrel with rifling. I think that the spin imparted by the rifling would scatter the shot way too much. What size shot is best for those creepy crawlies?
dbarale
Member
The Judge has a rifled barrel. If it had a smooth bore it would be classified as an AOW and NFA rules would apply...
Tracker and Judge are not the same gun.Tracker has a heavy bbl and the Judge has a lightweight bbl.Think of the Judge as the CCW version of the Tracker.
I wouldn't buy one.I'd get the Tracker in 45 Colt or 44 mag.
410 has a bad rep for stopping anything other than a sporting clay.
I wouldn't buy one.I'd get the Tracker in 45 Colt or 44 mag.
410 has a bad rep for stopping anything other than a sporting clay.
22-rimfire
Member
The barrel is rifled. From reviews of the revolver, #4 shot seems to be about right. The rifling hurts the pattern on smaller shot sizes. I do want one of these and continue to look at the longer barreled version. If nothing else, it would be fun to take out in the woods or to a dump site and do some plinking.
Added: If you go to the Taurus web site, you will see the Tracker terminology used in the names of the various 45-Ten models.
Added: If you go to the Taurus web site, you will see the Tracker terminology used in the names of the various 45-Ten models.
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johndoe1027
Member
I have a 3" Judge and I love it. Its not quite as accurate as my Kimber 1911 but with buckshot it can make a heck of a mess of anything withing 10 yards. With some nice 45LC's (I like Gold Dots) it has more the enough energy to do the trick. I also love the push of 410 shells. It's my favorite gun to shoot.
Does anyone know the relative difference in loadings between a 410 shell (bird loading) and a 45acp shotshell? I'm guessing there's more lead in the 410.
Does anyone know the relative difference in loadings between a 410 shell (bird loading) and a 45acp shotshell? I'm guessing there's more lead in the 410.
22-rimfire
Member
Does the 3" "Judge" take 2.5-inch 410 shells or 3-inch? Is the 3" referring to the barrel length or chamber length?
About all you can get in a 45 ACP shotshell is 150gr of shot. A 45 Colt isn't much better. A 410 shotshell has 1/2 an ounce of shot (220 grains). The 45 ACP load will be faster though -- about 1000 fps. The 410 shotshells in a short barrel are disappointing -- 700 to 800 fps.
The current crop of Judge revolvers have 2.5" chambers, so 3" would refer to 3" barrel. The Taurus web site is currently confusing about model numbers and chamber sizes. I think there will be a new one that has a 3" chamber, but I can't tell the model number (was 4510 whereas old ones were 4410, but now all appear to be 4510 variants).
The current crop of Judge revolvers have 2.5" chambers, so 3" would refer to 3" barrel. The Taurus web site is currently confusing about model numbers and chamber sizes. I think there will be a new one that has a 3" chamber, but I can't tell the model number (was 4510 whereas old ones were 4410, but now all appear to be 4510 variants).
44and45
Member In Memoriam
Quote:
About all you can get in a 45 ACP shotshell is 150gr of shot. A 45 Colt isn't much better. A 410 shotshell has 1/2 an ounce of shot (220 grains). The 45 ACP load will be faster though -- about 1000 fps. The 410 shotshells in a short barrel are disappointing -- 700 to 800 fps.
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I don't load shotshells in .45 acp or .45 Colt, but Think its safe to assume the .45 Colt can hold twice as much shot as a .45 acp brass...maybe more.
And the issure here is snake loads isn't it?
While the 4510 Judge is a good idea, its not the best to assume it can replace a normal .45 acp or .45 Colt revolver for something bigger than snakes.
Jim
About all you can get in a 45 ACP shotshell is 150gr of shot. A 45 Colt isn't much better. A 410 shotshell has 1/2 an ounce of shot (220 grains). The 45 ACP load will be faster though -- about 1000 fps. The 410 shotshells in a short barrel are disappointing -- 700 to 800 fps.
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I don't load shotshells in .45 acp or .45 Colt, but Think its safe to assume the .45 Colt can hold twice as much shot as a .45 acp brass...maybe more.
And the issure here is snake loads isn't it?
While the 4510 Judge is a good idea, its not the best to assume it can replace a normal .45 acp or .45 Colt revolver for something bigger than snakes.
Jim
No its not safe to assume that. The 45 ACP shotshells use a longer case (cut down 308 win) and have a "bullet" formed part that holds shot. So it ends up being about the same volume as 45 Colt. I tried to take 460 S&W brass and use that same technique to form an elongated 45 Colt so it could hold more shot without using the blue shot cups. I had some problems (die length issues) and abondoned that idea. The blue shotcups hold about the same as the formed 45 ACP cases. I wish they made longer shotcups so you could load them long if you had a gun with a long enough chamber.
If you want a revolver that shoots shot, the Taurus is the way to go, especially if you want larger shot like BB or #2. You can handload 410 shotshells, or just use 444 Marlin brass and get there quicker. I'm looking for something close range (10 yds or so) but for targets larger than snakes -- rats, crows, grouse, oppossum, rabbits, people.
If you want a revolver that shoots shot, the Taurus is the way to go, especially if you want larger shot like BB or #2. You can handload 410 shotshells, or just use 444 Marlin brass and get there quicker. I'm looking for something close range (10 yds or so) but for targets larger than snakes -- rats, crows, grouse, oppossum, rabbits, people.
22-rimfire
Member
I stopped off at a gunshow this afternoon. They told me that the short barreled 45-Ten was selling very well and had sold several that day. The longer barreled ones don't appear to sell as well. The stainless version I looked at had the words "Judge" on the barrel. First I have seen that.
johndoe1027
Member
Why not? It can still shoot 45LC's all day long. You can't shoot the barn burner LC's out of it but a 250 gr @ 900 fps WILL stop the threat. IMHO
MCgunner
Member
Accuracy, or lack there of, would be MY "why not". I know what that much freebore does for accuracy in a Contender barrel and it ain't good. Also, a shorter cylinder is a more compact gun to carry. At home defense ranges it's fine, but un-necessary. If I wanna shoot a rabbit at 30 yards for camp meat, I'll need more accuracy. All depends on what you want with the gun. I've seen guys post they wanted to hunt with it or use it for a survival gun, rubbish. Get a .22 kit gun or a good, accurate .357 for survival, or better yet, a long gun if you can fit it into your plans.
Crunker1337
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I think that you should stick with .45 Colt, I don't see the point of .410 shotshells...
I've heard that revolvers chambered in .454 Casull can fire .45 Colt rounds but not .410 shot shells, can someone confirm this?
I've heard that revolvers chambered in .454 Casull can fire .45 Colt rounds but not .410 shot shells, can someone confirm this?
22-rimfire
Member
You are correct on the 410 question and the 454 Casull.
Stainz
Member
I shot a short barrel blued 4410 last week at the range. The accuracy with .45 Colt 250gr LRNFP commercial 'cowboy' loads was not awe-inspiring. The rounds made a 1ft diameter circle around the small steel target plate at 12yd (15yd to the berm where the impacts were noted.). Shooting the #6 .410 (2.5") at a man-sized target sheet left impacts swirled - maybe 4" plus apart. At that distance, a family of copperheads would likely be safe.
Most 'cowboy' loads are mild - less than 800 fps from 4.6"-5.5" for 250gr LRNFP. I load a tad warmer loads - usually at the upper limit of the SAAMI spec for .45 Colt (14 kpsi) - and can get a 255gr LSWC to 820+ fps from my 625 Mountain Gun's 4" barrel. With a wood grip, the 2.5 lb steel S&W rates between mild and barely noticeable with said load, which I shot at 12" steel plates at 100yd - standing - freehand hold. I could hit them 3 of 6 shots both before and after shooting the Taurus, all shooting being DA. Oddly, the day-shooter who had the new 4410 didn't do very well with my S&W, either. I can't blame my poor results with his Taurus on 'my' marksmanship... probably the trigger deserves some blame, as it was 'typically Taurus new'. In my experience, Taurus' will improve - especially so for the new 66 we resprung at the range last winter. night and day.
Recoil was a bit higher with the #6 .410's - I feel that may be due to the 'lightness' of the 4410 - perhaps an Al frame(?). In any case, I'd get a .45 Colt, if that is what I thought appropriate for 'protection'. I love the 625MG so-chambered, actually now having two of them, but the Tracker would be a fair substitute for it's price - if it is still available. The 4410 - and the 3" chamber 4510 due out this fall - are a novelty to me... there won't be one here.
Stainz
Most 'cowboy' loads are mild - less than 800 fps from 4.6"-5.5" for 250gr LRNFP. I load a tad warmer loads - usually at the upper limit of the SAAMI spec for .45 Colt (14 kpsi) - and can get a 255gr LSWC to 820+ fps from my 625 Mountain Gun's 4" barrel. With a wood grip, the 2.5 lb steel S&W rates between mild and barely noticeable with said load, which I shot at 12" steel plates at 100yd - standing - freehand hold. I could hit them 3 of 6 shots both before and after shooting the Taurus, all shooting being DA. Oddly, the day-shooter who had the new 4410 didn't do very well with my S&W, either. I can't blame my poor results with his Taurus on 'my' marksmanship... probably the trigger deserves some blame, as it was 'typically Taurus new'. In my experience, Taurus' will improve - especially so for the new 66 we resprung at the range last winter. night and day.
Recoil was a bit higher with the #6 .410's - I feel that may be due to the 'lightness' of the 4410 - perhaps an Al frame(?). In any case, I'd get a .45 Colt, if that is what I thought appropriate for 'protection'. I love the 625MG so-chambered, actually now having two of them, but the Tracker would be a fair substitute for it's price - if it is still available. The 4410 - and the 3" chamber 4510 due out this fall - are a novelty to me... there won't be one here.
Stainz
johndoe1027
Member
Groups are much better with buck shot than smaller shot. From what I can tell if a load has a cup, the pattern gets "swirled" like you were saying.
smkinguntracy
Member
I have the 6" barrel,stainless Judge.I hand load 2 1/2" 410 shells for it. I use a wad,not a shot cup and get 30' acuracy with the #8 lead shot I use.It's fun and acurate. Thay maybe worth something in a few years because a 410 pistol like this one and the BFR makes is a scarce configuration.
I think that the Judge has to be the greatest hiking, backpacking gun every made... Takes care of snakes, people and rabid animals... I would imagine it could be used in a pinch on bear, but I will keep the pepper spray handy anyway.
I could see it being used effectively to provide small game, but haven't had the chance yet.
I could see it being used effectively to provide small game, but haven't had the chance yet.
i own a judge with a rare 4 inch barrell i shoot everything out of it slugs shot 45 lc and buckshot. my judge will shoot 2.5 inch groups at 25 yards with slugs or 45 lc and produces a fair pattern at 15 yards i carry mine always when i backpack and i would not trade mine for nothing i own several other big bores but the judge is great
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