Tax stamps - Gun registration

[Dean1818]

I have seen many people that fight with great resolve to NOT allow their guns to be registered. (myself included)

I have also seen many people buy a suppressor or SBR the same rifle and complete the paperwork to get a tax stamp

in a large way, your gun is registered with the government

You are on a list

Does anyone else see this as a potential problem?


It bears the question, with the unashamed, blatant open tapping of phones and emails, that someone from the gov is actively monitoring this site, (I would stop and say hello .. )

With weapons and such, I stay within the law, but do try to keep it more private (I dont post all the guns I own in my sig line)

At some point, I would like to get a suppressor, and feel that since I am on one list, why not another

Of course since the day of the great backyard pond tsunami, all my weapons were lost when the boat overturned.......



Thoughts?

 

[HKGuns]

If you think you aren't already on a list of some sort you are fooling yourself. Plus, you're over thinking the whole NFA thing. If you want a silencer, get the stamp and buy one.

 

[jerkface11]

The ATF doesn't even know how many tax stamps are out there that makes it hard to believe they know where they are.

 

[Ironman]

I should be around 30 tax stamps.... I could care less what they think. They have bigger fish to fry. Do I think the registry is unconstitutional, oh hell yeah. But I love my NFA toys so for now I must play the game.

 

[22-rimfire]

I believe once you fill out a 4473, have a background check run on you, or post on gun related internet forums that you are "on the list". That being said, I have been on the list for a long long time and don't worry about it much.

 

[MachIVshooter]

in a large way, your gun is registered with the government

It's not "in a large way"; it is registered with the .gov, plain and simple.

I really don't care if "they" know what I have or not. Makes no difference. If the (hypothetical & basically impossible) total ban and door-to-door confiscation ever came, what would be the point of having a "secret stash"? To resist later, when most everybody else had already been disarmed? Not like you'd be able to go out and play with them. You'd be in the same position as those folks who chose to not register their machine guns during the final amnesty; they have them, but they cannot use them, the weapons have no value, and they are in constant danger of prosecution.

 

[GBExpat]

Thoughts?

Sounds to me like you should spend some more time thinking this thru ... and then get that suppressor.

 

[Armor Snail]

If you aren't on a list by now you're doing it wrong.

 

[Sunray]

Once you fill out a 4473, your firearm and you are registered. It's how The ATF et al knew who had bought a .223 rifle when those two criminals who were shooting up the DC area.

 

[Kyle M.]

Once you fill out a 4473, your firearm and you are registered. It's how The ATF et al knew who had bought a .223 rifle when those two criminals who were shooting up the DC area.

When you fill out a 4473 the gun you bought and serial # are on the form yes, but when the FFL licensee calls it in he only tells them handgun or long gun, not the make, model or serial #. They would have to go to the FFl you bought the gun from to know who bought it. Of course thats not that big of deal the manufacture knows who they shipped it to whether it was directly to an FFL or to a middle man distributor, and said middle man also knows what dealer they shipped to. So it can all be tracked fairly easily.

 

[tarosean]

You have 800+ posts and been a member of a gun forum for 4yrs. You really think your being that secretive?



your IP address is easier to track than any gov form, you may or may not have filled out. Now remove the tin foil before it cuts off the circulation.

 

[Dean1818]

You have 800+ posts and been a member of a gun forum for 4yrs. You really think your being that secretive?



your IP address is easier to track than any gov form, you may or may not have filled out. Now remove the tin foil before it cuts off the circulation.

I don't disagree

I actually believe that I probably am on several "lists"......

My point is, that we fight for no gun registration...... but we dont seem to care that we hand over the same details on a tax stamp

That's part of my point. Wondering if others felt the same

 

[dogtown tom]

Anyone who thinks their gun is "registered" with "the government' needs to take a deep breath.

1. There is no federal registration of Title I firearms and there never has been.

2. Only Title II firearms (NFA) are "registered" via payment of a Federal tax stamp.

3. Only a handful of states require registration of firearms.

4. Buying a firearm from a licensed dealer and completing a 4473 is not "registration" of the firearm, but a record of a transaction between a dealer and buyer. The buyer is free to give the firearm as a gift, sell or trade it the next day if he chooses.....and he doesn't have to report that to anyone. With true gun registration you do.

5. Stop believing everything you see on TV. While a gun trace seems to find the killer immediately on NCIS...........it doesn't work that way in real life. And that's because the great majority of states and the Federal government do not register firearms at the point of sale.

6. When your local PD recovers a firearm at a crime scene they will first run the gun through the FBI NCIC to see if it was reported stolen and if its not listed, contact ATF to begin a firearms trace. ATF will then contact the manufacturer>distributor>dealer to trace the trail of possession. Each licensee has 24 hours to respond with their disposition of the firearm.....so it may take several days if multiple licensees are involved before the first retail sale. If "the government" actually had a useable database they wouldn't need to contact dealers would they?

7. While ATF does keep records of multiple sales and out of business records they aren't efficient in managing the information and would only have records from licensees who have gone out of business. 4473's older than twenty years can be destroyed by the dealer.

 

[dogtown tom]

Sunray
Once you fill out a 4473, your firearm and you are registered. It's how The ATF et al knew who had bought a .223 rifle when those two criminals who were shooting up the DC area.

Not remotely correct.
The Bushmaster AR used in the shootings was STOLEN.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beltway_sniper_attacks

 

[Arizona_Mike]

I have seen many people that fight with great resolve to NOT allow their guns to be registered. (myself included)

I have also seen many people buy a suppressor or SBR the same rifle and complete the paperwork to get a tax stamp

in a large way, your gun is registered with the government

You are on a list

Does anyone else see this as a potential problem?


It bears the question, with the unashamed, blatant open tapping of phones and emails, that someone from the gov is actively monitoring this site, (I would stop and say hello .. )

With weapons and such, I stay within the law, but do try to keep it more private (I dont post all the guns I own in my sig line)

At some point, I would like to get a suppressor, and feel that since I am on one list, why not another

Of course since the day of the great backyard pond tsunami, all my weapons were lost when the boat overturned.......



Thoughts?

The question is do you want to have fun or wait for something that may not change in your lifetime? The NFA is in it's 83rd year, 84th in few weeks.

It's kind of a false worry anyway. We are not supposed to discuss WotRoL at THR for reasons I don't really understand (one of which is it being far-fetched--except for Jews in Crown Heights, Koreans in LA, or just about everyone in New Orleans) but to barrow a phrase from a Russian friend of mine if it comes to the point where a law abiding person being on a list really matters, "a gun is going to be a lot more handy than a pitchfork".

Mike

 

[medalguy]

I's true that there's no registration of Title I guns per se, but you do realize that fairly often ATF agents come into dealers and copy as many 4473s as they wish? And whenever a dealer quits business, all his records are sent to Martinsburg to be stored? And that ATF is in the process, and has been for many years, of scanning in all those forms? And that it's very simple to program scanners to convert that data into fields that are stored in a big computer database somewhere?

All the fields on a 4473 are consistent so it's a simple matter to scan in forms and tabulate all that data. No tinfoil but reality.

Lists? We're all on several lists by now. Don't worry about it.

 

[Art Eatman]

The registered suppressor is all that BATFE knows about. You can always keep it separate from all the various firearms for which the barrels are threaded for that suppressor--even WW II bringbacks.

 

[Rock185]

I have been a shooter for so long that I have little doubt that I am on every "list" the Government has. If I was going to worry about being on a Government list, I'm way late. I should have started worrying about it before GCA '68;-)

 

[FROGO207]

No worries that I am on several "lists" with relation to firearms/reloading without a doubt. BUT the SPECIFICS of if or what firearm(s) you or I own TODAY are a total unknown to the BATF unless the few inclusive reasons (tax stamps) are required. As stated unless you live in a restrictive state you are free to buy/sell/trade as you see fit without reporting it. The 4473 trail stops there unless you wish to release that private transaction info.

 

[Ranger Roberts]

I look at it like this. I'm a LEO, I was in the military, I belong to gun forums, I'm an NRA instructor, I have a firing range in my backyard and I've had a hunting license for the past 25 years. It wouldn't take anyone long to figure out that I shoot. I'm pretty sure if there is a list, I'm on it! That's why I didn't hesitate to start collecting stamps.

Take the plunge Dean1818!! Get a trust and start collecting stamps! I thought I would stop after one can and an SBR. God, I was lying to myself! The first time you mag dump a full auto, silenced Mac 11 you won't regret your decision!

 

[CoRoMo]

...we fight for no gun registration...... but we dont seem to care that we hand over the same details on a tax stamp

Incorrect.

Having full blown registration on NFA items is greatly concerning and infuriating. See post #4. It is all but unacceptable. But it is the reality and for the moment, inescapable. I would rather register these things so that I am within the law, rather than break these laws. We certainly do care.

 

[22-rimfire]

I follow the law plain and simple. Completing the 4473 or the NICs background checks are not registration by law. I have suspicions along those lines, but neither currently are registration to my knowledge. Registration is where the specific gun is entered into a registry by law along with the owners name, address and so forth. A registry facilitates taxing or restricting the right to own a firearm or any gun related item (suppressor and so forth) that the government determines is to be taxed or restricted directly. If you live in a state that requires this, your firearm is registered to you.

 

[Spats McGee]

The ATF doesn't even know how many tax stamps are out there that makes it hard to believe they know where they are.

I have never seen it claimed that the ATF doesn't know how many tax stamps are out there. May I ask what makes you say that? I don't own any NFA items, which means that I also have no tax stamps. Clearly, I need to spend some time educating myself on NFA stuff. Are the stamps numbered?

 

[pjeski]

I have never seen it claimed that the ATF doesn't know how many tax stamps are out there. May I ask what makes you say that? I don't own any NFA items, which means that I also have no tax stamps. Clearly, I need to spend some time educating myself on NFA stuff. Are the stamps numbered?

The only numbers on the stamp are the serial number of the item and the date. Also on the stamp are the inspector's initials. This is how they "cancel" the stamp.

 

[Spats McGee]

Thanks, pjeski. If there are serial numbers, my guess would be that the BATFE does know how many are out there. There's no reason to number something if you're not going to keep track of it.