TDI Ka-Bar and different technique

[Fun2Shoot]

First, here's the knife I'm talking about:

https://www.kabar.com/product_detai...tegoryId=1,7,8,9&categoryName=Law Enforcement

When I was handed this new-to-me style of edged weapon, I gripped it the way I would employ it using the methods from "Cold Steel" many years ago. That is; holding it with the thumb and index finger at the hilt and or guard with the rest of the finger on down the handle.

The counter guy demonstrated his style of gripping it and employing it. This really surprised me. Get this. He has the knife/scabbard in his right side belt loop (OWB), handle pointing foward ( the reverse of the Ka-Bar instructions). He grips the handle in what you might call an "upside down" grip. So that when he draws out the TDI knife, the blade is protruding from the bottom of his hand, not the top (cutting edge foward facing). He uses his first attack stroke like a right-cross punch would be, but with the intent executing a face slash followed by what in karate is called a "back-fist, but with the purpose of it being a direct stab to the face or other target. He repeats this two-stroke technique over and over.

It was obvious the he was a well trained fighter. I have not seen those kinds of lighting fast and precise moves since my karate instruction by a Black belt years ago.

He was smart. He said run first if you can, but like in an elevator or or other small space, that may not be a real choice.

Anybody else familiar with this "upside down" blade defense style?

 

[JShirley]

It's one of the type things I practiced sometimes, when I was working on kenjutsu techniques. Instead of cross-drawing as normal, you can surprise the hell out of the opposition by doing things like drawing with the same-side hand. You can then do a slash similar to what you describe, or just smash with the sword pommel.

(You may have to twist the sword first to orient the edge correctly; what you can do depends on sword length; etc, etc.)

John

 

[KenpoTex]

It sounds like he was using it in the same manner as one would use a Kerambit. Reverse grip is very common when using a kerambit so I can see it working pretty well with the TDI since the two tools are somewhat similar in design.

 

[JJE]

The head of Cold Steel [blanking out on name] has criticised reverse grip in an essay that has appeared in CS catalogs because it limits range compared to the standard (aka saber grip, forward grip) that he advocates. This makes sense if you are forced to defend yourself against someone also armed with a knife and you both use traditional techniques (try to stay out of range while you snipe at the other's knife hand). In this scenario - given 2 equally skilled users - the one with the longer range wins. However, the TDI is designed as a last-resort, close-range defensive tool - maybe the attacker is armed with a knife, but not necessarily. The attacker is on top of you, so limited range doesn't matter. In this situation (as the man at the show put it "an elevator or or other small space") you want maximum grip strength to do maximum damage rather than maximum range. The hammer fist that was demonstrated to you provides that grip strength.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Anybody else familiar with this "upside down" blade defense style?

I'm not a knife fighter AT ALL and I've heard of it. It's actually pretty common. Watch Mel Gibson in "The Patriot" for an awesome example of that grip used in conjunction w/ a tomahawk.

 

[hso]

Anybody else familiar with this "upside down" blade defense style?

Yup. It works and it's simple to learn, but you gotta be phone booth close.

 

[JShirley]

Worked on my deer.

 

[lawson]

i wear and draw my TDI in this fashion if i'm not wearing a handgun on my strong side. i feel that if i'm not using it for handgun retention (it's intended design and purpose), it's more effective when used in conjunction with fists.

when i am wearing a sidearm (most of the time), the TDI rides on the left side.

i gotta mention, this is my current favorite defensive knife. i've always preferred fixed blades to folders, and i absolutely love the TDI.

 

[Fred Fuller]

http://www.shivworks.com/tutorials.asp

and scroll down to

http://www.shivworks.com/PSP/ECQ knife work.pdf

http://www.shivworks.com/PSP/An Expression of Pikal.pdf

and some other gutter stuff.

lpl/nc

 

[KenpoTex]

The links Lee Lapin provided are well worth looking at. SouthNarc's material is excellent.

 

[RyanM]

The main reason for an "upside down" grip, in my understanding, is speed. A conventional grip is a little faster for some techniques, but a reverse grip will let you imitate a sewing machine with little effort. With a regular "straight" knife, anyway. The TDI looks well-suited to kerambit techniques, though.

My preference for something like that (and they way I carry a LaGriffe) is cross-draw. That way it doesn't interfere with carrying a firearm, and the draw stroke can be used to deliver a low slash to the abdomen.

 

[carebear]

I was taught the reverse grip years ago in Boot, there's actually two variations. One is just a hammer fist with the knife perpendicular to the forearm, the other is more of a reverse sabre grip with the blade trailing back toward the forearm.

One technique involved a left forearm block of a right handed attack. Slash upward on the attacker's inside forearm for (hopefully) a disarm then slam the blade back down diagonally through the side of the neck (in the hollow of the collarbone) for the kill. If one misses or fails the other wouldn't.

The new entry-level Marine MA knife fighting has less "knife fighting" to it. It uses a forward hammer grip hold with a prison style blitz attack, alternating chainsaw slashing (get belly to belly and move your knife hand in a vertical circle while pushing the opponant backward) to the face, neck and upper chest with jackhammer thrusts (hard, fast and repetitive) upward from about the diaphragm to get into the chest cavity from below. The thrusts should go through armor. We're talking multiple strikes a second.

The stuff they're teaching now is more direct and brutal (and realistic, to my mind), it's designed to get through the (armored and/or geared up) opponant while encumbered with all the battle rattle on, not square off in a mano-y-mano duel.