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Tea Party Guy's Charges Dropped in NYC

Discussion in 'Legal' started by NelsErik, Jan 12, 2012.

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  1. NelsErik

    NelsErik Member

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  2. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    I wonder if all these cases are dismissed, will the constitutionality of NY's gun laws ever get challenged?
     
  3. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    That's probably why the charges are being dropped. Lots of media attention on these last few arrests.
     
  4. Strykervet

    Strykervet member

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    Good news!
     
  5. wojownik

    wojownik Member

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    Good that the felony charge goes away, but nauseating that the prosecutors office is going for the old BS move of extorting a disorderly conduct violation plea.

    I'm curious where the prosecutor figures disorderly conduct fits in this scenario - probably under bullet 7. below - the presence of a firearm having theoretically created a hazardous situation, but the "no legitimate purpose" is pretty arguable.

    At least its "just" a violation, with a maximum fine of $250 (if I recall right), and the record on violations can get sealed. Plus, he still loses his firearm, as expected.

    S 240.20 Disorderly conduct.
    A person is guilty of disorderly conduct when, with intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof:
    1. He engages in fighting or in violent, tumultuous or threatening behavior; or
    2. He makes unreasonable noise; or
    3. In a public place, he uses abusive or obscene language, or makes an obscene gesture; or
    4. Without lawful authority, he disturbs any lawful assembly or meeting of persons; or
    5. He obstructs vehicular or pedestrian traffic; or
    6. He congregates with other persons in a public place and refuses to comply with a lawful order of the police to disperse; or
    7. He creates a hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose.

    Disorderly conduct is a violation.
     
  6. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    When you say "violation" is that "infraction" to my Hoosier eyes?

    infraction=no possibility of jail, just fine only. So "violation" is equivalent to our infractions?

    Sweet plea deal. I'd be happy with that any day of the week.
     
  7. hermannr

    hermannr Member

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    My guess is they do not want to charge someone with the means to go all the way with it the courts...with the funding potential, a prominant person, that could be the death bell for that NYC law.
     
  8. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    Alan Gura would love that challenge, and Bloomers would wet his bloomers at the thought of Alan Gura waltzing into NYC with his lawyers briefcase. ;)
     
  9. Radagast
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    Radagast Member

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    True. But he isn't going to get it. If faced with $250 fine or three years in jail, I'd take the fine as well, realising that I had just paid protection money to an organised crime syndicate.
     
  10. wojownik

    wojownik Member

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    Not to diminish Mr. Gura's accomplishments and acumen, which I greatly respect, but taking on DC gov't and their lawyers is in a very different league than the NYC Corporation Counsel and the Law Dept, backed by multi-billionaire Mayor Bloomberg (whose personal net worth is currently in excess of $3 billion). A quantum difference. I'm pretty sure Bloomies' bladder would not ruin his bloomers (a poor attempt at alliteration).
     
  11. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    Exactly, perfect way to put it. AND, the defendant losing his right to possess firearms forever, as well. If it were me, too much to risk as well. The NY pistol permit system came into existence by a mob boss in 1911 - "Big" Tim Sullivan - for the reason of protecting his criminals from victims who were starting to defend themselves with guns.
     
  12. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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  13. LemmyCaution

    LemmyCaution Member

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    More likely they realized 'Whoopsies! Obviously, we never intended for nice, white folks to be subject to this law, but we couldn't write it the way we wanted to, so I guess we'll just have to selectively enforce it. After all, who's going to question the discretion of the Executive in this post 9/11 era? You want us to keep you safe, don't you?'
     
  14. wojownik

    wojownik Member

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    Ummm, that is a fairly offensive statement - no need to bring racism into it.

    Selective enforcement is indeed a major problem, and not only in NYC, but throughout the country. But in this case, selective enforcement worked in favor of Meckler, who walked away with a $250 fine and no criminal record, as opposed to a felony bingo and mandatory multi-year stay at the luxurious Rikers Island spa and resort.

    Plus, this anti 2a stance has existed for well more than a century in NYC.

    In NYC, the problem is both the executive and the judiciary, both are left leaning, nanny minded, anti 2a almost universally (in my experience). Unless you were flagging the federal Executive branch, which has pretty much absolutely nothing to do with this particular discussion.
     
  15. Owen

    Owen Moderator Emeritus

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    Considering gun control was originally an effort to keep guns out of the hands of ethnic and religious minorities, I don't think its unreasonable to bring race into the discussion here.
     
  16. wojownik

    wojownik Member

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    The point of my remark was that the statement was phrased in an objectionable manner.

    Meckler got off. Ryan Jerome (former Marine) faces a minimum 3 1/2 year stretch if convicted. Both are caucasian, for whatever that matters.

    I am all too aware that many gun control laws have historically been passed to discriminate against certain elements. In NY, for example, the infamous Sullivan act was passed a century ago in large part to discriminate against immigrants, mainly Italians in this case. One of the inherently objectionable things about gun control legislation is that it has a long history of being rooted in bias and discrimination.

    A century ago, NY gun control legislation was indeed passed with a strong theme of anti-immigrant sentiment. That tainted it from the start. However today, a century later, that legislation is a cause for concern for otherwise law abiding folks of every race, gender and creed.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2012
  17. LemmyCaution

    LemmyCaution Member

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    Meckler got off with a $250 fine because he's a white guy from Nevada. The marine will also get off. The nurse will get off.

    Plaxico Buress got less than the mandatory minimum because he was a celebrity, but still did time because he wasn't white.

    Some unknown black kid from East New York with no priors and a college education? He's doing the full ride.

    NYC's gun laws suck, but the only thing worse than them is seeing them waived for a certain class of people but not for a certain other class.

    If my statement of that reality offends you, I'm happy to offend you.
     
  18. Mike1234567

    Mike1234567 member

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    I wonder if gun control laws ever affect wee Irish folk? Wee were hated quite a bit as well... especially in the N.E.
     
  19. wojownik

    wojownik Member

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    Look, I lived and worked in NYC for 20 years, and saw all sorts of nice white, black, latino and asian folks have charges reduced or removed. I have no illusions that a poor minority guy is going to get shafted, without being able to access decent counsel. I also have no illusions that a poor - or stupid - or bad attitude - white guy is going to get shafted as well. I've seen this first hand in everything from DUI to weapons charges.

    Mentioning Burress is apples and oranges. He accidentally shot himself in the thigh while partying at a crowded NYC club (he was concealing a Glock in his pants, no holster). Unlike the other folks being mentioned here, he had NO current or valid CCW license (an expired one for FL). He had an illegal handgun and rifle in his Manhattan apartment. His sentence was two years, plus two supervised released ... a hell of a lot less than the prosecutors originally wanted. For his gross stupidity, he got off pretty lightly by NYC standards.

    Meckler and the other folks were snared where they were at least attempting to show some sort of deference to the law, even when grossly mistaken about NYC CCW laws. This will likely be very much taken into account by the prosecutor and/or judge.
     
  20. mitchell11

    mitchell11 Member

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    I read this post and learned some things about gun law in nyc but maryland is no better l hoped by the time i was old and disabled i could get a permit to carry but it sounds like that will never happen so l become easy target.what do we do
     
  21. Mike1234567

    Mike1234567 member

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    ^^^ Move to another state. Come on down to Texas... we've got lots of room!! :)
     
  22. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    The certain class of people getting off are current out-of-state license holders who outted themselves to security by declaring they had a gun.

    Plaxico fired a gun (accidently) in a crowded nightclub. Left the scene. Got treated at a hospital that did not report his gunshot wound as required by law. Two days later, Burress turned himself in. And of course Bloomberg (Mayor for making all guns illegal) interjected hissonor self into the case publicly.

    Later Bloomberg did not help his cause either by telling the public the TN nurse was carrying cocaine in her purse (Goody's or BC headache powdered aspirin, duh). The exDA who commented to the press on the nurse's case pointed out that years ago the sentence for gun possession was 1 year, and NYC judges exercised discretion to drop charges in most cases not involving violent behavior. NY upped the minimum to 3.5 years and removed the judge's discretion.

    According to Don Kates' "Restricting Handguns: Liberal Skeptics Speak Out" 1979, the history of gun control has been selective enforcement against minorities. He also documents that the judges of the guncourt in Chicago would frequently drop charges against people caught simply carrying for self defense out of fear of crime, which was easy since most arrests involved blatant violation of Fourth Amendment rights.

    But Plaxico firing a gun in a crowded night club does not make a good poster boy for either gun rights or black rights.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2012
  23. Radagast
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    Radagast Member

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    Mike 1234567:
    The anti-irish sentiment was back in the 19th century. By 1911 and the passage of the Sullivan Act the Irish were the establishment and they distrusted the next wave of immigrants.

    Carl N. Brown:
    Plaxico is not a poster boy for anything other than stupidity. But if he crashed his car without huring anyone but himself l doubt he would be jailed, even if there was a crowd in the street.
    The idea of Mens Rea is something the pro-gun crowd needs to reinject into legal thinking. As long as a thing is held responsible for criminal acts then that thing can be demonised.

    Plaxico didn't commit a crime of intent, he acted negligently and shot himself, which indicates that it would be safer for him and all around him if he didn't handle guns. But it is not a reason to jail him. He was jailed for possession of an inanimate object.
     
  24. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    ^I was addressing the probable reason the cases were treated different. Let me be clear: I agree that the NY and NYC gun laws are overboard and have no sense of proportion. If they were examined objectively, they would probably be seen as violating legal standards of due process and equal justice and most lay folks' concepts of fair play and common sense.

    Before Heller'08 and MacDonald'10 most cases appealed on Second Amendment grounds were like Miller'39 (a bootlegger crossing statelines with a sawn-off shotgun). To win in Heller'08 and MacDonald'10 our side needed squeaky clean defendants.
     
  25. cor_man257

    cor_man257 Member

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    Does anyone else find it astonishing that this Tea Party Guy didn't get his weapon back even after the charges were dropped? Isn't that theft? If they arn't returning the firearm what is he suppose to do? Get it removed from his lisence for confiscation? Or file for it as a stolen firearm with the ATF?

    I love Upstate NY. Its where I was raised... but its a real shame that the politics of the state extend from NYC straight to Albany.
     
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