Technology To Protect The 2nd Amendment

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MagnumDweeb

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Cody Wilson, does anyone remember him? I do. And while I wasn't thrilled with his attitude I respected where he was coming from. Since Sandy Hook I have undertaken a great deal of expense and risk to expand my knowledge and understanding of firearms. I've done everything legally but making your own gun powder is a risk in and of itself, especially if you are also making your own Potassium Chlorate primers. I've invested in a CNC Engraver and have been having some interesting results in that department as far as AK flats and tool outlines for more homemade tools and equipment.

I've managed to make some interesting things since Sandy Hook and I've learned some interesting tools to make interesting things i.e. Green Sand, Investment Casting, Lost Wax Casting, etc. etc.. I've also learned patience and the use of files as a form of meditation (you want to hand finish a piece with a file because you don't trust your skill with a dremel, be prepared to be at it for a while).

But what does that have to with Cody Wilson. Cody Wilson showed us that the powers that be don't like us making things that make their constituents upset, or make their jobs harder. It also showed us that there is now more interest in making guns than ever. Some folks just recently figured out how to use an ARC welder with a 3D printer setup to print receivers and pieces and while those pieces won't be of the strongest make or finest finish (meaning they'll need more work) it shows us there is a way to make more guns for ourselves.

If you look for Shovel AK you'll find the thread where a guy made a AK receiver from a rusty shovel head and then assembled it with a parts kit to have himself a semi-auto only functioning rifle. I'm not that ambitious, my CNC Engraver has helped me make a couple interesting firearms that are legal (I've found I don't like to mention specific projects anymore) and are of an AK style origin. So the tech is out there, we just need the know how (there are more than few guides you can find on the internet that show you how to make an AK stamped receiver from almost anything).

I also made myself a simple and crude Sine Bar styled rifling machine. In doing so I learned all about twist rates, cutting heads, and again patience. But it has worked in turning out barrels for my AK builds (it just took making twenty six different heads and twelve hours of total work to get a finished barrel that wasn't chrome lined) and the AKs shoot out to one hundred yards quite well.

Where am I going with all of this? Technology. The antis hate it because technology is potentially freedom. The technology of rifle making helped make the colonists free in their fight for liberty. And the technology of gun making can help us remain free with our gun rights.

If we can drive technology to make gun manufacturing easier in a person's home, then we stand to show that laws restricting ownership are toothless. That as a society we are better off investing in ending income inequality, racial inequality, and mental health underservice. Than attacking law abiding citizens. In effect, technology setting us free of the encumberance and distraction of gun control to battle society's greater needs and dangers.

Next naturally ammo manufacturing will be a big concern. And that's where I'm focusing my energies next with my ton press to help along with my kiln, and stash of beat up cartridge brass that can never be reloaded but certainly can be melted down. I'm not the most articulate person or even the most mechanically skilled sure enough. I'm far more lucky then smart I believe most days but I think this is where we have to go next with firearms ownership.

The citizen manufacturer, the citizen gunsmith, a public able to manufacture its own arms. To hell with the antis, let them try and stop technology so they may be seen for the guestappo scum they are.
 
Technology is truly good for those who wish to roll their own, so-to-speak. However, it seems it would open the doors for the .gov to pass new laws where making firearms in the home, without regulation, would be illegal. These laws would calm the anti's fears that we will all turn on our printers and knock off hundreds of guns that can pass thru metal detectors, etc. Of course, we know this is not the case but the anti's are as much ignorant as they are self-serving. The media also creats panic by their 45 second blurb about how you can now print guns, at home, on your 3d printer. The more we advance in technology, the more the antis and the .gov will wish to regulate and control. These new laws will prey on ignorance and fears, like most of the newer gun control laws now in place.
 
I agree that the more the people can do in our homes the better and more secure we are. You would think that since you can make a crude gun out of $10 of plumbing parts the antis would give up but common sense isn't high on their priority list.

Obviously it's a good idea to be safe about what and how much information you post but keep us updated on how things are progressing and what you're learning. If I had more time/money I'd get more into some of those aspects of self sufficiency.
Before Sandy Hook I was barely starting to get into reloading, then when the components dried up I sold what I had to friends so they could continue on the reloading they've been doing for years, figure I'll get into it if/when the shortage is over.
 
I'll just be the devil's advocate for a moment. I have seen the exercise of rights bring about the abridgement of those rights (think open carry in California) and many argued that we brought that on ourselves by stirring up the sheep.

How will calling attention to home-building end any differently? A bill has already been introduced in California that would require registration and serialization of home built firearms. I don't believe that there is a technological solution the the issue of protecting 2A rights. Only winning hearts and minds of the majority of Americans will accomplish that.
 
316SS - A Right not exercised is a Right lost. Wouldn't not exercising a Right in hopes of it not being taken away the same as having it taken away?
 
Ryanxia- I don't disagree with you (note the "devil's advocate" comment in my post above).

But I do think long-term protection of 2A rights requires convincing people that those rights are good and valuable, and the role of technology is incidental.
 
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I just "borrowed" this post signature from user "smogcity" on the calguns dot com forum... I did thank him. :)~
 
200Apples- Would that our elected government just read the Constitution and follow what it says. Here in the real world, since 1803, the Supreme Court has been free to interpret the Constitution as they see fit.
 
There was once a prohibition on alcohol and that failed miserably. There was once a prohibition on Marijuana use and that is starting to crumble with each passing year. Now there is a desire to create a prohibition on guns, so we must work to make such a prohibition costly to the adversaries of the Bill of Rights.

The more tech we develop to make guns within the home, more ammunition within the home. The harder and harder it will get for the prohibitionists to play whack-a-mole with us gun owners. Oh they will try and then it will come down to us gun owners to make the paltry donation of $40 in the way of an NRA membership to help balance the field a little bit. Because god bless congress critters, they are bought and paid for whores of the most principleless kind. All they care about is getting elected and if the NRA can wield a fat bank book to make that happen, the critters will play ball for us.

Sure you got that fascist Bloomberg working on funding the anti-BOR groups, and he is a billionaire but not everybody is happy about him trying to bankroll the will of a few upon the backs of the many. If forty million gun owners joined the ranks of the NRA this battle would start to turn in our favor like you wouldn't believe, I believe lol. How else to do that but rile up the dirty scum of gun grabbers.

Imagine their faces when folks are using the latest Arc-Welder based 3D printer to turn out Lorcin or Jennings like pistols in their homes. Imagine how they will try to rile up to stop the technology and ban the right of manufacturing guns within ones home. An act that has been legal for quite sometime.

I think we need to pick a fight, and technology should be our weapon in that fight. I would like the NRA to back a branch for home gun makers, providing info on their behalf and education. Teaching what is legal, and what is illegal, the difference between open bolt and closed bolt. Explaining semi-auto firing control groups and their necessity.

The antis can only be so many places at once, technology will give us another ability to frustrate them. Sure it might give them a rallying flag but they've never been able to must the numbers, money, and dedication our side has.

Folks start building rifling benches in their homes after printing out the parts for a hand operated one for handgun barrels, in conjunction with making some of their own parts and providing some of their own parts. They start printing metal receivers that need a little hand finishing for fitting parts. Folks start printing brass cups for running in ton presses with draw dies to create brass cartridge as they use their MAP gas torches to anneal and harden the cases.

Folks start getting ammonium nitrate based instant cool packs and improve their nitration with nitric acid so as to make ammon pulver gun powder, and folks start getting bleach and potassium chlorite to make potassium chlorate primers (and maybe a little red phosphorous from any number of sources to improve their reactiveness).

We show the antis. You can work with us, or you can work against us and drive these skills and abilities underground. You can tax and benefit from the 2nd Amendment, or you can pay more taxes to achieve less and less with law enforcment.
 
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Would that our elected government just read the Constitution and follow what it says.
Click to expand...

Sworn! to defend the Constitution! they are.

:cuss:


I am familiar with this "real world" you speak of, and of course it's not pretty. You are quite right, 316SS.

I am not equipped for political debate. I can only exercise my rights; my right to free speech, to contact our elected representatives, and to keep and bear arms.


MagnumDweeb, thank you for your post. It is thought-provoking!

:)
 
Don't forget that most basic of homemade firearms, the venerable ZIP gun. :cool:

Find a piece of black iron gas pipe or galvnized pipe that is just small enough to let the plastic shell body go in but NOT the brass rim. Take a cap that screws on the end and drill a 1/8-3/16" hole in the center for the "firing pin".
Debur and smooth all edges of the end of the pipe and hole in the cap. Take a 1/8" piece of steel (a blunted 10D nail cut to proper length will work in a pinch), preferrably a piece of "tool steel" (for its hardness) and cut it so that it sticks out of the cap 1/8-3/16" while the other end sits directly on the primer.

With the pin just barely in the cap (NOT resting on primer), you hold a small wooden block in one hand and the pipe in the other, then smack the pin fairly hard to ignite the primer. Wrapping the pipe with "sports wrap" like on tennis racquet handles helps with the kick. ;)

It may only be a single shot but the Liberator pistols used by the WW2 resistance fighters was also a single shot that they used effectively to obtain better arms from their enemies. :evil:
 
Guys, let's please not start posting stuff that may or may not be illegal already depending where you are :rolleyes:. Flouting legal activity may or may not lead to restriction, but advocacy of illegal behavior certainly will. It's plenty easy to make a zip, and plenty easier to find out how to make one already; no need to bring that here.

"Technology is truly good for those who wish to roll their own, so-to-speak. However, it seems it would open the doors for the .gov to pass new laws where making firearms in the home, without regulation, would be illegal."
The only technology that "opens doors" for government intervention is technology possessed by the government. Anything else gives us the edge (and the power). New technology always comes with risks; the most worrisome of is that new technology always comes with excuses for its restriction or exclusivity. What the printing press has done for the mind, home prototyping will do for all manner of manufacture and industry (or warfare, to make the paraphrase even closer ;))

+1 to MagnumDweeb; as further evidence of his assertion, we may bear witness soon enough to our very own Reefer Madness fright film :D (or Plumb Crazy, Glock Shock, or Dr. Smith & Mr. Wesson :D :D)

TCB
 
barnbwt - homemade guns are legal and thus have a place here. If they are not legal where you live then you should of course obey your local laws, but for the rest of us, it's just fine. Kind of like talking about 30 round mags even though there are CO folks on here. :D

I know what you're saying but we can't let aspects of gun ownership seem sketchy because it will be that much easier to take away for the antis. If you do a google search there are entire threads dedicated to home made firearms. Who's to say how much I have to spend our how skilled I have to be to make one? :)
 
Ryanxia, JT could add "hose clamp this pipe to a scrap 2x4 and you now have a legal single shot shotgun" to be safe :)
 
MErl said:
Ryanxia, JT could add "hose clamp this pipe to a scrap 2x4 and you now have a legal single shot shotgun" to be safe :)
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Would the method he said before without the hose clamps not be legal? (Serious question, I'm not real familiar on homemade stuff)
 
Not entirely sure actually. If it hit the minimum length requirements it probably would fall under the same rules as a PGO shotgun. As a handgun it is a no no. I was going for a full shotgun made to be fired from the shoulder with my comment, no question there.
 
I swear I keep trying to make posts and they don't show up. I had a nice long one about AK variants as good simple scratch builds and such.

Well to the simple points of it all. Politically it would be a good time to start fostering a cottage industry of making guns at home I believe. Simple AK flats can be done on a CNC engraver, along with a fair amount of some small parts. CNC engravers are a lot cheaper than their CNC Mill counsins, that's for sure. From there it would be an industry of jig building as I believe jigs would be needed for the purposes of 3D metal printing using Zinc, Aluminum, nickel metals and alloys.

From jigs you would need mirror moldings to show the parts are in spec (you slip the part against the mirror mold to see it it fills the voids without leaving cavities and such). Then you would need mandels and turning apparatus for the springs (yes you can use a power drill but that is like cooking a steak with a flame thrower instead of a grill when you want it medium rare) for spring turning and production (you have to heat treat springs as you make them funny enough).

Jigs would also be good for small parts production as well, especially screws. Barrel making is complicated but not completely impossible. Especially if niche retailers got into making small simple sine bar rifling benches (controlling the twist rate with a set of pre-made gears and spindles that cut a single groove at a time with a simple indexing roller) about the size of two foot by four foot for making pistol barrels.

My biggest point in my last post to fail was that we need the make it a home side of gun making to help bridge the gap between those who are well off and able to afford guns and shooting and those barely getting by that can't afford guns. We need a new crop of shooters every four years or one day we are going to turn around and find our rights gone.

Get someone into shooting and they tend to vote for their right to keep shooting. That's what we need, and growing the ability to make guns at home will help accomplish that. Imagine if you could go to a tool equipment rental place, rent an arc welder and spend a few days turning out slides, receivers and small parts.

It's an idea, one I believe we will eventually have to employ.
 
Magnum, maybe you could write an in depth guide to help folks get started? A list of equipment (and what can be done with each piece as many may be completely new to the concept), what is required for some sample projects (ie, to make ammunition you'll need this, to make receivers you'll need this, to make barrels you'll need this, etc.) Maybe list some resources you use, resources that can help get people started, things to look for when buying/setting up equipment.

Get some input from other members of the forum here and you could have an excellent start to educating members on how to be more self sufficient and seeing what's involved with home crafting if you will. That would go a long way with your/our goal.

I'll admit myself that I honestly have no clue where I'd even start, I've got friends that do some home stuff but aside from having read up about reloading (from guides people have put together to make it easier) I don't know much about home crafting.
 
The 2nd Amendment has never been compromised by a shortage of technology, it has been compromised by a shortage of will.
 
Welding Rod said:
The 2nd Amendment has never been compromised by a shortage of technology, it has been compromised by a shortage of will.
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I think what the OP is saying is the progression of technology is making aspects of home crafting easier and more in reach of the average citizen, and that if we ignore this aspect of self sustainability it could end badly. I agree, especially with ammunition. We've seen already how easily we can be affected by an ammo shortage. Our eggs seemed to be in not enough baskets. :D
 
We need to be very careful about demonizing ANY homebuilt gun. While the intent of the zip gun maker may be to circumvent laws against his possession, the REAL issue is that they commonly can't afford the entry fees into ownership.

Once the hurdle of financing is overcome, most move right into "made" guns.

Review the law - not hearsay. Those that govern the construction of a firearm at home are very specific - IT'S ENTIRELY LEGAL, AND NO SERIAL NUMBER IS NEEDED. Shooter's have been making bench rest and other target guns since the beginning of firearms and none have been required to have a serial number until about 1968. Even the makers omitted them up until then, and they still trade and sell them. NOTHING illegal about them.

Building your own gun from a flat and then leaving it blank is addressed in existing law and there is nothing "wrong" with it - zip gun, AK, 80% AR lower, bolt action sniper rifle, whatever. It's the general shooting public who thinks it isn't in some way, or who go right along with the political propaganda and repeat the mistruths and half lies.

The specific criteria that does require a serial number is when it is sold. For profit sales of firearms will need to have a serial number recordable sooner or later, and is what the BATF requires - as of 68. Again, those from before aren't illegal and are still changing hands with no difficulty. That grandfather provision is exactly why the law suggested in CA has serious legal issues. Anything made up to the date of it's potential enforcement must remain legal. It's a Constitutional issue protected by the 4th, IIRC, and already used in protecting our gun rights.

The real issue? Us. The shooting community doesn't see a zip gun as a viable firearm, they trash talk it. They need to pump up their ego and turn the conversation to what they own, which is painted in the most glowing terms, to enhance the image of what a great guy they are.

Oh, yeah, we do that. Hundreds of posts a day on dozens of gun forums. This is where technology is working against us - we collectively keep raising the entry level to owning guns instead of just enjoying them for what they are. It's part of the reason there are declining hunter numbers, too. The price of the gun, clothing, gear, and then fees to hunt private land are really enormous, it's been a staple joke for decades that the price of venison approaches $100 a pound before it's hauled to the processor.

One mans zip gun is another's firearm, the new FP-45 Liberty pistol that was supposed to be clandestinely issued in WW2 is now being reproduced and sold for $499. Zip gun indeed.

As long as we build firearms with legal features, they are legal. Don't let social pressure or "gender escalation" accelerate the loss of your freedoms.
 
Tirod, I greatly appreciate your post. It was wonderful. The barrier to entry into firearms needs to be our next biggest concern after lobbying and court battles.

It is something we cannot afford to miss. We talk about how great the latest $1,000 gun is and that's fine but it has a potential to alienate those seeking to join our ranks. I'm an economy gun buyer. I won't pay a thousand dollars for a handgun, it just won't happen. Now I'll buy a thousand dollars worth of tools and equipment in the effort to make a 1911 receiver from a billet of 4340 steel and then do a heat treatment of it in my homemade carburizing forge (Map gas burners heating bamboo wood made [dried and browned first for three months on my roof while laying on black tar paper, never try it on green wood] charcoal. But that's me and that's still way more than the average person is prepared to do (the old used motor oil trick is fine for AK stamped frames in my opinion [not an expert don't do it] but I don't like it for 1911 or Tokarev frames).

As to addressing the zip gun. My March project is actually one I want to do based on a rifled barrel (a .32 caliber paper cartridge) and some parts you can find at home depot. I don't like zip guns, sorry, they don't look sophisticated enough for my tastes to be something we can hold out to the public. That's why I want to do a needle rifle. A month ago I was in Home Depot looking for stuff to make a custom door for my Dad's house and stumbled upon a spring loaded mechanism. It was very simple and basic and I've made my own spring loaded mechanisms in an attempt to duplicate bolt action firing systems, and while they performed well, they were still incredibly sophisticated compared to the average DIY type.

The receiver again will be the hardest part but the trigger assembly shouldn't be that difficult based on my drawings. Just a simple spring activator for the mechanism I saw and played with at Home Depot. The next issues will be the gas capture and deflection from the round. It was a common issue with Dryse needle rifles that was only really dealt with with Chassepot French needle rifles but it was still a serious issue. I think I can find most of the rubber parts my self but I think it's an issue that would be best address with 3D printing the seals for the purposes of duplicability. My issue is that I think it takes to too great a point of sophistication again. And having to make molds for the plastic so as to cast the plastic parts will be another issue.

Essentially I want to duplicate a .32-20 black powder charge using a paper cartridge with a potassium chlorate primer in the paper cartridge. The rifle would be a simple small varmit hunter good for squirrels, rabbits, racoons, etc. etc. (don't see it being a deer slayer but in the most desperate of circumstances and I consider it too anemic a round to test it out on a live animal). I would use a modern barrel, and the receiver I would try and make from scrap steel and some turns at my arc welder for spot welds. Again I'll get stuck using my ton press, hammer, and forge to bend the metal to form probably but I want to test it out.

The only way I could see making and selling a rifle like this legal in most states would be to build it as a muzzle loader only and pray the round fired and when it didn't, having to pour a ton of water down the barrel, capping the barrel, and removing the firing pin so as to let the water sit in the barrel for a few days thoroughly wetting the black powder and primer rendering it unable to be discharged.

This is the simplest "rifle" I can think of. Then once it is done as a rifle. I can turn out a pistol grip from a 2x4 and build a whole other new gun with a similar breach loading style and shortened barrel. I've thought about duplicating just a simple break open breach loading style like that of an H&R rifle but I just can't get interested in it.
 
MErl - what I described can NOT be "shoulder-fired" as it has no trigger or stock assemblies. It is fired by smacking the nail firing pin protruding from the back of the pipe with one hand while holding the barrel with the other.
If you want to see one in action, watch Charles Bronson's "Death Wish 3" movie. In the big fight, there is a latino guy helping him witha zip gun. It is just meant more as a handgun in this case.
 
JTHunter, I think if we are going to present to the public the idea of folks making guns in their home legally, we have to abide by certain level of sophistication. Namely a rifled barrel, followed by an actual trigger mechanism, and then if it is a shotgun or rifle, a shoulder stock. I wouldn't want to present to the public what may be seen purely as "gang weapons."

An uncle of mine did some time in prison back in the sixties when guys made prison zip guns for when there was the occasion riot to get some revenge or square a grudge. Allowing ones piss and feces to ferment(putrify) for a few months under wrap and then drying it out in the sun till it became a hard mass, then running water through it and boiling down the contents would give you a crude a potassium nitrate which could be improved a little better with on hand materials like blood or glue, and again boiling. Mind you this had to be done during the winter to get the extreme differences in temperatures you wanted. Then it was a simple matter of getting your hands on strike anywhere matches which weren't that difficult to get in prison back in the sixties strange enough. From there it was harvesting the potassium chlorate, sulfur and red phosphorus. Use the wood from the matches to make a really poor quality charcoal with a coffee can in the middle of the night when the guards weren't watching. And a few more steps I'll skip, and then you had the gun powder and primer for a zip gun.

From there it was a matter of of getting your hands on a pipe, nail, pipe top, and whatever projectiles you wanted. My uncle told me before he died that in his five years he made over sixty zip guns with a single shot for each. He also made all kinds of shivs and other stuff for the various gangs. He was the guy to know because he could also make prison LSD and prison wine. He came out with over twenty thousand dollars in savings by the time his five years were done.

Now all that's good and fun info but it doesn't really address the issue of getting technology into the hands of the everyday common person to build firearms that the public could find somewhat legit. Zip guns are an easy go to but I think they are a lazy go to.

I'd also really like to see rolling block mechanisms as a way of creating shotguns, rifle,s and pistols. AGHHH!!! Too many ideas, too many projects. Lol. Oh and drop block rifles and shotguns too, that would be even easier with a flintlock or nipple cap system.
 
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