Tell me about blade steel...

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KBintheSLC

KBintheSLC

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So, I am looking to buy a good fighting knife, and I am down to two options. The first is a SOG bowie knife that uses "AUS 8" steel for the blade. The other is a Ka-Bar USMC fighting knife that uses "high carbon steel" for the blade. Now I know that the AUS 8 alloy incorporates a given amount of carbon for added strength. But how do these two types of steel differ in the real world?

Thanks.
 
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The KaBar is likely 1095 high carbon. It's a good steel for the application, but some will tell you that you need some superalloy.

The SOG is a great knife; the Kabar is a great shovel!
 
One is stainless (AUS 8), the other is not.

Assuming it is 1095, then it will tend to stain and rust more easily and faster under moist conditions (once the black paint wears off), but it will be tougher and hold edge better than most any stainless, including AUS 8 - it really depends on whether you need the stainless properties of the stainless steel or not. If it's gonna be wet a lot and/or you don't tend to clean & oil, then get the stainless. If you do wipe down regularly, then go with the tool steel. AUS 8 is a quality "middle of the road" stainless - pretty good, but not really "premium" - on a par with 440C.
 
I'm not fond of 1095 steel. It is what machetes typically use. It is one of the reasons I have hesitated to buy a Rat RC-4. AUS8 is pretty good steel. It is hard and will hold an edge. It will seem more difficult to sharpen. Get yourself a good diamond stone. SOG blades are pretty good overall. I have a number of them in various steels.
 
Properly heat treated 1095 is superior for rough use knives than AUS8.

On the other hand a "fighting knife" is not a rough use knife and AUS8 will take a good edge and you won't have to worry about it rusting.
 
1095 holds a better edge. Both steels have carbon, that's what steel is, iron with carbon. 1095 is a more basic steel, and will rust more readily, due to the absence or lesser content of various elements. AUS 8 is indeed a fine steel. They both will do what you need, most likely. I would go for 1095 probably, because, of edge retention and ease of sharpening.
 
all the differences have been covered. To see for yourself the various steels and their composition go to the steel chart at the spyderco website
 
and rust is a good thing on a fighting knife...
as it may cause blood-poisoning in your enemy :)

(Get a Glock FM78)
 
If your enemy lives long enough to get blood poisoning, I imagine he might keep your knife as a trophy. In which case he may get on THR to post the same question: "What is meant by high-carbon steel in American Ka-bar knife?"
 
I have found not all aus-8 is equal. depends on how they heat treat it etc. the fact theka-bar won't tell you what steel they are using concerns me a little. they may have well just as well said "made of metal." do some more research on the ka-bar steel and find out if you are comparing apples to apples, or apples to oranges.
that said, I have been pleased with my sog and both companies have a reputation for decent stuff. likely you will never be albe to tell the difference. get the one that you like better.
 
Most machetes are made of thin, spring tempered STAMPINGS using 1050, or other lower carbon member of the 10xx steels.

There is certainly no machete related reason to shy away from a good 1095 knife. The 1095 alloy is the one specifically formulated for working blades.
 
The 1095 alloy is the one specifically formulated for working blades.
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I dont believe 1095 was formulated for knives , 1095 is mere spring steel ( works great for a knife when properly HT'd ) , I think you are thinking of S30v which was designed for the cutlery industry in 2001 by Crucible..
 
AUS8 is a very hard steel, it's been my experience that it's much more brittle and loses it's razor edge much quicker than other steels. Even worse, once that factory edge is gone it's a monster to get back.

The Ka-Bar doesn't say what steel it uses but as has been noted here, it's 1095 high carbon steel. It's a great steel for a knife. Yes, it can rust easier than AUS8, but most of the blade has a parkerized finish and the edge can be easily cared for. Hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of soldiers have found the Ka-Bar to be reliable. Add me to that list.
 
If I am not being too inquisitive, may I ask about the other knives you considered for your stated purpose. Of course, nothing is wrong with your final two choices, but I am a bit curious if you considered a stout dagger design among the contenders. Some folks, though not all, consider the dagger a great fighting knife. Just my curiousity getting the better of me.


Timthinker
 
The 1095 alloy is the one specifically formulated for working blades.
Click to expand...

I dont believe 1095 was formulated for knives , 1095 is mere spring steel ( works great for a knife when properly HT'd )
Click to expand...

JTW Jr. is correct, while 1095 makes a great blade steel (when properly heat treated) it has been around a very long time and is primarily a carbon tool/spring steel typically used for springs or cutting tools requiring sharp cutting edges such as grass or grain cutting tools.

There have been plenty of steels that have been used for blades, but very very few that were originally made just for knife making (420 HC I think being one of them and the recent batch of materials from Crucible).
 
In the real world you'd be better off with a Fighter I make. But I'd go for the 1095 one also.
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Valkman... those are some beautiful knives you make there. Looks like you are using premium steel as well (154CM, CPM D2). Unfortunately, I don't have the budget for a top end knife. I need something around $100 that will be "good enough".
 
If I am not being too inquisitive, may I ask about the other knives you considered for your stated purpose.
Click to expand...

I have looked at several other SOG models... Seal's, Bowie's, Tigershark's.
and have also looked at other Ka-Bars... fighters, USMC, Army
I looked at some Dark-Ops but they cost too much.
I have also looked at Grayman and recently DL Knives, but those are also too much.
All I really need is a decent fighter knife thats not afraid of doing a little bit of work from time to time, and costs around $100.
 
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I'd op for a screwdriver or Old Hickory kitchen knife myself if I was into knife fights.

I do know a Case Barehead Slimline Trapper with CV blades and Shrade Old Timer Trapper with 1095 blade with the brass liner lock will stop someone from doing what they are doing.

So will a Victorinox Soldier...

Almost forgot...
SAK Spartan, Tinker and similar. Old 'Nam suggestion, since folks were not allowed personal weapons "going into town". Still a SAK was not defined as a weapon.

We are speaking of a serious situation, where folks going into town were targeted by serious enemy. Enemy including kids. Not a good idea to get a shoe-shine, while in town.

Kids, even "girls" would do snatch and grab, or hit and run, and take off on bike ( pedal or motor).

In hand with the Spartan, Tinker, similiar, with the awl opened, which is perpendicular to the knife , and between fingers, akin to a "T" handle, one has a formidable tool to get someone to quit doing what they were doing.

Back springs are stout, one has a grip on a tool, and after doing what the black and white tapes shared, and practiced in training, this tool worked as well as the Kabar, or club , the training taught.

Now don't look like prey, think like a criminal, and criminals often "shank-n-run".
Meaning, it was just a SAK, and if need, drop it and get to safe place.

Re: SAK Soldier, and GI Demo, the reamer is different than the awl. It protrudes from the end of the bolster. It is capable of doing other things besides reaming a hole, or striking a fire starter...yes indeed!

Just thoughts.

Everyone should have a SAK Soldier anyway...
 
I'm rather curious what a "fighting knife" is to you?

People don't fight with knives. If used as weapons, they kill with them. If you're facing someone who has a knife, you should be using something else, something with reach.

John
 
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