Tell me about the Browning Hi Power please
- Thread starter Katty
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Bullet Bob
Member
Well, some real experts should be around shortly, I'll try to start until they get here.
Gun people always think older is better; i.e., "the ones made in Belgium are better than the ones made in Belgium and assembled in Portugal". I won't even get into the "cast pot metal" vs "assembled by magic gnomes from forged steel" debate. As you can tell, I'm something of a pragmatist.
I don't think that's true, and several qualified gunsmiths don't think so either. They are worth more, just because people will pay more for them.
Then there are the "my Hungarian/Martian (etc.) made copy is just as good at 1/2 the price". I don't believe that one either, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
As far as the different models, there's no real difference in function. If you like adjustable sights, get that one, if you like the "rugged" fixed sights, get those.
They are great, wonderful, classic guns that work well and feel great. I only have two, wish I had a dozen.
I've been shooting for well over 30 years, which does not make me an expert, but does let me know what I like. I'm mainly a S&W revolver guy, but I also have too many self-loaders; if I could only have one semiauto centerfire, the Browning HP would be it.
Gun people always think older is better; i.e., "the ones made in Belgium are better than the ones made in Belgium and assembled in Portugal". I won't even get into the "cast pot metal" vs "assembled by magic gnomes from forged steel" debate. As you can tell, I'm something of a pragmatist.
I don't think that's true, and several qualified gunsmiths don't think so either. They are worth more, just because people will pay more for them.
Then there are the "my Hungarian/Martian (etc.) made copy is just as good at 1/2 the price". I don't believe that one either, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
As far as the different models, there's no real difference in function. If you like adjustable sights, get that one, if you like the "rugged" fixed sights, get those.
They are great, wonderful, classic guns that work well and feel great. I only have two, wish I had a dozen.
I've been shooting for well over 30 years, which does not make me an expert, but does let me know what I like. I'm mainly a S&W revolver guy, but I also have too many self-loaders; if I could only have one semiauto centerfire, the Browning HP would be it.
No expert here, but I've had one for a number 0f years. There are minor variations on the original basic model but the High Power has been depended on by many for about 75 years. It is like the 1911 as a military and civilian weapon. It is highly dependable, a great shooter, feels great, points naturally and is easily maintained and easy to get parts for. You can't go wrong as a shooting investment if it is the size and caliber you're looking for. Look around for a used one if the price on a new one is too high.
10X
Member
The Hi Power is a fine fine gun. Everything positive that you heard about it is true. A proven design, reliable, fits the hand well and looks great. The issue of forged versus cast frames is really a non issue. Browning started the cast frames to add strength to handle the 40 S&W. Quality has always been excellent with any of the variations (cast frame, assembled in Portugal, etc).
The T serial numbers (about 1969 and earlier) seem to be the most valuable followed the the forged frames. That is because they weren't produced anymore so they have a modest premium in price.
The most common is a 9mm. There are many 40 S&Ws around. They don't feel quite like the 9mm. There are a small number of 30 luger around.
There are a number of models, Capitan with the ladder rear sight, the Practical, adjustable sight versions, different finishes (high polish to matte0. There are way too many versions to describe. Just decide what your use is and find a model that meets your needs. Check out pricing here on the forum for the particular model.
There are no changes that you "need" to do with a Hi Power. Some people don't like the small safety. Extended ones are available. I never had the need. Hammer bite is more how you hold the gun. I have never had a problem and I have XL hands. Trigger pull is one thing I did have and issue with. I put in a 26 pound hammer spring in replacement of a 32 pound factory spring and removed the magazine disconnect. That helped the trigger pull night and day. Took about 20 minutes. Again, that is personal preference.
Good luck. You won't go wrong with the Hi Power.
The T serial numbers (about 1969 and earlier) seem to be the most valuable followed the the forged frames. That is because they weren't produced anymore so they have a modest premium in price.
The most common is a 9mm. There are many 40 S&Ws around. They don't feel quite like the 9mm. There are a small number of 30 luger around.
There are a number of models, Capitan with the ladder rear sight, the Practical, adjustable sight versions, different finishes (high polish to matte0. There are way too many versions to describe. Just decide what your use is and find a model that meets your needs. Check out pricing here on the forum for the particular model.
There are no changes that you "need" to do with a Hi Power. Some people don't like the small safety. Extended ones are available. I never had the need. Hammer bite is more how you hold the gun. I have never had a problem and I have XL hands. Trigger pull is one thing I did have and issue with. I put in a 26 pound hammer spring in replacement of a 32 pound factory spring and removed the magazine disconnect. That helped the trigger pull night and day. Took about 20 minutes. Again, that is personal preference.
Good luck. You won't go wrong with the Hi Power.
Ghost Tracker
Member
Hi-Power?
Stick with ONLY Browning or FN Hi-Powers. Their quality is well beyond reproach. Recoil is comfortable & as easy to control as any modern 9mm pistol. Very few pistols feel better or more balanced in the hand. Fixed sights are fine and usually POA=POI. Later "cast" frames are tougher than earlier "forged" frames. The safety is sometimes rather vague, easily corrected by an aftermarket safety from Cylinder & Slide.
Hammer Bite (pinching the web of the shooting hand between thumb & index finger by the resetting hammer) is an issue for some ham-handed shooters. Again, easily corrected by installing a "Commander Style" hammer from C&S.
A true classic handgun you can enjoy for reasonable prices. As capable in a gunfight as ANY 9mm handgun in the world. I'm with Bullet Bob, if I could only have ONE (1) autoloading centerfire handgun...it would be a Hi-Power. I've got a C&S equipped custom .357 Sig BHP & it's, by far, my favorite handgun.
Stick with ONLY Browning or FN Hi-Powers. Their quality is well beyond reproach. Recoil is comfortable & as easy to control as any modern 9mm pistol. Very few pistols feel better or more balanced in the hand. Fixed sights are fine and usually POA=POI. Later "cast" frames are tougher than earlier "forged" frames. The safety is sometimes rather vague, easily corrected by an aftermarket safety from Cylinder & Slide.
Hammer Bite (pinching the web of the shooting hand between thumb & index finger by the resetting hammer) is an issue for some ham-handed shooters. Again, easily corrected by installing a "Commander Style" hammer from C&S.
A true classic handgun you can enjoy for reasonable prices. As capable in a gunfight as ANY 9mm handgun in the world. I'm with Bullet Bob, if I could only have ONE (1) autoloading centerfire handgun...it would be a Hi-Power. I've got a C&S equipped custom .357 Sig BHP & it's, by far, my favorite handgun.
ACP230
Member
John Moses Browning started the development of the BHP. IMO he carried it farther than some folks think. There are copies of patent drawings from the 1920s that look an awful lot like the current BHP. A Belgian gun designer named Dieudonne J. Saive finished the pistol after Mr. Browning died. Saive is credited with the 13 round magazine. JMB evidently originally figured on an eight-round mag.
All the BHPs I've shot have excellent feel in the hand. I find them easy to shoot and like the fact that lots of 13 round mags are available for them. I have a variety of mags and have never gotten a bad one from any maker. I have used my BHP in pin, steel plate, and three gun matches. I've also carried it on occasion, and have sometimes used it as a house gun.
I have two BHPs. One is an Argentinian, made under license from FN.
The other is a BHP practical with a black slide over a silver frame. Both shoot well. The Argentine is the one I've had longest and I'm most familiar with it. It was also the most economical of the BHPs available when I was looking for one. Right now Charles Daly BHPs and FEGs made in Hungary are the cheapest to buy. Some of the FEGs I handled have had hard, gritty triggers. I've heard they are better now, but don't know for sure.
There are BHPs available in .40 S&W, as well as 9mm. I stuck to 9mm partly because it is the traditional caliber, and also because I didn't want to add another round to my ammo supply.
It's hard to go wrong with a BHP.
All the BHPs I've shot have excellent feel in the hand. I find them easy to shoot and like the fact that lots of 13 round mags are available for them. I have a variety of mags and have never gotten a bad one from any maker. I have used my BHP in pin, steel plate, and three gun matches. I've also carried it on occasion, and have sometimes used it as a house gun.
I have two BHPs. One is an Argentinian, made under license from FN.
The other is a BHP practical with a black slide over a silver frame. Both shoot well. The Argentine is the one I've had longest and I'm most familiar with it. It was also the most economical of the BHPs available when I was looking for one. Right now Charles Daly BHPs and FEGs made in Hungary are the cheapest to buy. Some of the FEGs I handled have had hard, gritty triggers. I've heard they are better now, but don't know for sure.
There are BHPs available in .40 S&W, as well as 9mm. I stuck to 9mm partly because it is the traditional caliber, and also because I didn't want to add another round to my ammo supply.
It's hard to go wrong with a BHP.
Hawk
Member
Here you go: http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/
Steven A. Camp, the guru that put together that web site, moderates the semi-auto forum here.
If you've any questions after checking the site, I'd bet posting them in the semi-auto section will get you everything you need.
Steven A. Camp, the guru that put together that web site, moderates the semi-auto forum here.
If you've any questions after checking the site, I'd bet posting them in the semi-auto section will get you everything you need.
BHPshooter
Member
I will agree that JMB took the Hi Power further than he gets credit for -- but he did it posthumously, through the expired 1911 patents.
Yes and no. Saive is the one who was assigned the task of designing a double-stack 16-round magazine for the Grand Rendement. That was a part of the Grand Rendement design -- the original prototype is still in the Museum at Ogden's Union Station -- but the staggered mag was wisely left out of the patent to avoid copycats.
Browning did not have an interest in the mag, that's why Dieudonne Saive was appointed to the task.
[/history lesson]
The BHP, for some, is the perfect 9mm -- maybe even the perfect handgun. I still haven't found a gun that fits me quite as well as the BHP does. I carry one all day, every day, and I love it. The slide is slim, the edges are rounded and the grip is just the right size. I really love that I can reach all of the controls [trigger, safety, slide stop, mag release] without shifting my grip.
The trigger is usually heavier than other single action autos, which can be fixed through various means, and there is the controversial mag disconnect...
For me, it's all about feel. That's why I've stuck with them. YMMV.
Wes
Yes and no. Saive is the one who was assigned the task of designing a double-stack 16-round magazine for the Grand Rendement. That was a part of the Grand Rendement design -- the original prototype is still in the Museum at Ogden's Union Station -- but the staggered mag was wisely left out of the patent to avoid copycats.
Browning did not have an interest in the mag, that's why Dieudonne Saive was appointed to the task.
[/history lesson]
The BHP, for some, is the perfect 9mm -- maybe even the perfect handgun. I still haven't found a gun that fits me quite as well as the BHP does. I carry one all day, every day, and I love it. The slide is slim, the edges are rounded and the grip is just the right size. I really love that I can reach all of the controls [trigger, safety, slide stop, mag release] without shifting my grip.
The trigger is usually heavier than other single action autos, which can be fixed through various means, and there is the controversial mag disconnect...
For me, it's all about feel. That's why I've stuck with them. YMMV.
Wes
bumm
Member
I'm a 1911 guy, and I still am. I never had much use for Browning HiPowers until I inherited an old Inglis BHP, and replaced the 60 year old springs. It's a WONDERFUL gun! The trigger pull is pretty rough, but as has been pointed out, removing the magazine safety helps with this. I still like the feel of a 1911 more, but this is an individual thing. You won't go wrong with a BHP.
Marty
Marty
sm
member
Katty,
The real eye opener is in the handling and shooting.
I am big into gun fit to shooter.
Breaking down gun fit to hands, as simple as I can from experiences and observations over the years, Four Guns fit over 90 % of all hands.
BHP
1911
Smith & Wesson K frame
Colt Detective Special.
Two semi autos and two revolvers.
Granted there are other guns, that do real well on the "fit to hands dept".
Still in keeping it simple, with guns proven in metallurgy, craftsmanship, history on the streets used by LEOs, and by the Military - around the world- these 4 guns are what I have broken it down to.
Steve
The real eye opener is in the handling and shooting.
I am big into gun fit to shooter.
Breaking down gun fit to hands, as simple as I can from experiences and observations over the years, Four Guns fit over 90 % of all hands.
BHP
1911
Smith & Wesson K frame
Colt Detective Special.
Two semi autos and two revolvers.
Granted there are other guns, that do real well on the "fit to hands dept".
Still in keeping it simple, with guns proven in metallurgy, craftsmanship, history on the streets used by LEOs, and by the Military - around the world- these 4 guns are what I have broken it down to.
Steve
zxcvbob
Member
I have one of the Argentina Hi-Powers, made by FM. I love revolvers, but the HP feels better in my hand and points better than any other gun I've handled. I don't shoot it as well as a revolver though, probably because of the very hard trigger pull. Mine came from the importer without the magazine disconnect; at first I though this particular model might have been manufactured w/o it.
I'd never heard of lighter hammer springs before. Mine will shoot a pencil all the way across the room if I drop it down the barrel and dry-fire it. *way* more force than is necessary to fire even a rifle primer. Maybe I'll try one of those 26# springs.
If i buy an ambidextrous safety (I'm a lefty) made for a later model BHP, does that require fitting by a gunsmith? It looks like it should fit right in the existing hole.
Bob
pittspilot
Member
I have an FN Mark II and love it. 100% reliable and there is nothing else that points like it.
Took out the magazine disconnect and now have a crisp break.
Took out the magazine disconnect and now have a crisp break.
Robert Hairless
Member
- Joined
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If you are ever lost in the woods or even in a strange city, do not panic. All you need do is say, gently, "The Hi-Power is not the very best 9mm handgun ever made."
Immediately will appear several thousand truly knowledgable handgunners who will say with one voice "Are you crazy? The Hi-Power is the very best 9mm handgun ever made."
Walk up to one of them, apologize, and say "Could you please lead me to civilization?"
Modern Hi-Powers made by Browning and FN are the same except for cosmetics. Browning is the consumer company for FN-Herstal; FN is its military and police company. Brownings are beautifully finished. FNs are durably painted.
What most people call the "Hi-Power" has several names including the "P-35." Manufacturing began in 1935. With its long history you can expect several variants and even more myths and legends. If you're interested in one for shooting instead of collecting, a new FN or Browning Hi-Power is a good choice. There are also many Hi-Power clones. The best of them in my opinion is the Arcus C-94, which looks clunky but shoots like a dream and is built to withstand anything. But there is nothing that makes the heart sing sweetly as spending time with a real Browning or FN Hi-Power.
Recoil is not an issue for anyone I've ever known. In my own experience women especially like the Hi-Power because it's so manageable and such fun to shoot. It also is accurate and reliable right out of the box. I suppose someone somewhere bought a lemon but I've not heard of it.
There's far too much to be said about the Hi-Power for any message like this to do justice. Stephen Camp's web site is a good starting point if you want to read more.
Immediately will appear several thousand truly knowledgable handgunners who will say with one voice "Are you crazy? The Hi-Power is the very best 9mm handgun ever made."
Walk up to one of them, apologize, and say "Could you please lead me to civilization?"
Modern Hi-Powers made by Browning and FN are the same except for cosmetics. Browning is the consumer company for FN-Herstal; FN is its military and police company. Brownings are beautifully finished. FNs are durably painted.
What most people call the "Hi-Power" has several names including the "P-35." Manufacturing began in 1935. With its long history you can expect several variants and even more myths and legends. If you're interested in one for shooting instead of collecting, a new FN or Browning Hi-Power is a good choice. There are also many Hi-Power clones. The best of them in my opinion is the Arcus C-94, which looks clunky but shoots like a dream and is built to withstand anything. But there is nothing that makes the heart sing sweetly as spending time with a real Browning or FN Hi-Power.
Recoil is not an issue for anyone I've ever known. In my own experience women especially like the Hi-Power because it's so manageable and such fun to shoot. It also is accurate and reliable right out of the box. I suppose someone somewhere bought a lemon but I've not heard of it.
There's far too much to be said about the Hi-Power for any message like this to do justice. Stephen Camp's web site is a good starting point if you want to read more.
sm
member
What a classic post! This is better than a GPS.
Vonderek,
Thank You for posting those! Neat!
Some years ago, when the Hi Power was one of the few big box magazine 9mms (prior to the introduction of the S&W 59) there was a whole industry devoted to tuning these guns. The HP was notorious for its inability to feed some hollow point ammunition. Now that the HP is a 'classic' this well known problem seems to have disappeared.
I have 3 HP, a Nazi proofed internal extractor, a belgiun made commercial and a fairly new Mk III with the Cylinder and Slide hammer system. They are all great guns, but like anything else, they have their warts. Test you HP with the ammo you will carry. Most HP can benefit from poslishing the feed ramp and breaking the corners on the chamber. The triggers are generally only 'fair' and removing the magaznie safety helps. You can also add an improved trigger bar, available from cylinder and slide.
The HP is a superb example of 1920's technology and was probably one of the best autos of it's time (Along with the 1911). As a fighting handgun, it's a little long in the tooth and there are 'better' modern handguns.
It, like the 1911, is still very serviceable, and is certainly a 'classic'.
I have 3 HP, a Nazi proofed internal extractor, a belgiun made commercial and a fairly new Mk III with the Cylinder and Slide hammer system. They are all great guns, but like anything else, they have their warts. Test you HP with the ammo you will carry. Most HP can benefit from poslishing the feed ramp and breaking the corners on the chamber. The triggers are generally only 'fair' and removing the magaznie safety helps. You can also add an improved trigger bar, available from cylinder and slide.
The HP is a superb example of 1920's technology and was probably one of the best autos of it's time (Along with the 1911). As a fighting handgun, it's a little long in the tooth and there are 'better' modern handguns.
It, like the 1911, is still very serviceable, and is certainly a 'classic'.
zxcvbob
Member
Another question about the lighter hammer springs. If I reduce the hammer spring, do I need to install a heavier slide spring (maybe it's called a main spring) to compensate? I shoot full-powered ammo, but not necessarily "+P". I don't want to wreck the slide, and the hammer spring probably provides some of its resistance.
Bob
Bob
Wish Mr. Camp was around to chime in to the spring issue. I'll repeat what I've gotten from THR. Reducing the hammer and slide springs are OK but will make it tougher on the action in general. If you are going to be a high volume shooter, then it might not be a good idea. You will have to be the judge.
Got my first Hi-Power in the early seventies. Love the gun hated the hammer bite. Shot it a lot for the next few years, since then I've had about every auto pistol you can name. Love the CZ type pistols and my XD ,but since my boss sold me his 'practical' Hi-power it has became my favorite. Ambi-safety,ambi mag release, good trigger, and adjustable sights.
Changing the trigger spring will have little effect on anything except maybe hard primers as seen in military surplus.
Recoil spring should be the heaviest that cycles the gun reliably and the maybe drop that a pound or so for extra reliability. The heavier the recoil spring the lighter the felt recoil will seem.
Removing the mag safety will lighten the trigger pull a bunch. The benefits of this "safety" are dubious at best.Your choice whether to remove or not. None of mine have it anymore.
Hope this helps, just an old man's experience.
Changing the trigger spring will have little effect on anything except maybe hard primers as seen in military surplus.
Recoil spring should be the heaviest that cycles the gun reliably and the maybe drop that a pound or so for extra reliability. The heavier the recoil spring the lighter the felt recoil will seem.
Removing the mag safety will lighten the trigger pull a bunch. The benefits of this "safety" are dubious at best.Your choice whether to remove or not. None of mine have it anymore.
Hope this helps, just an old man's experience.
bannockburn
Member
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- Apr 24, 2007
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- 26,309
I've owned two HP's; one a '66 blued Ring Hammer, the other an '87 New Model Single Action. If you wanted one just to look at and admire, that would be the Ring Hammer; beautiful Browning blue and nicely checkered walnut grips. But beauty was only skin deep, as trying to hit anything with those tiny sights and with a fourteen pound trigger pull; let's just say a trip to the range became an exercise in futility. Then in '87, Browning came out with an improved HP that addressed these problems; high visibility fixed sights, clean and crisp four and a half pound trigger, (without removing the mag safety), and a nice oversized ambi safety. But you had to give up the Browning blue and the walnut grips for a military looking matte finish and plastic grips. The new model also had a tighter barrel to slide, and slide to frame fit, that greatly improved accuracy. Now, knowing this, which one would you prefer? I would also add that I've tried the Argentine FM and the Hungarian FEG, and while not quite as nicely put together as the Browning's, they are both very serviceable copies of the original HP.
Harold Mayo
Member
A 26# hammer spring is what used to be in hi-powers. It was switched to 32# in the late 70's or early 80's, I think.
You can put an extra-power mainspring in but I wouldn't go more than 18.5# (regular is 17#). If you're really worried, put in a Sprinco recoil reducer.
10-Ring
Member
Gotta get a Browning! Wonderful platform
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