Tell me about the FN FNC!

[beerslurpy]

Noticed that select fire FNCs were significantly cheaper than ARs and are gas piston guns as well. But first some questions.

What sort of mags do they take? Special rare FNC mags or does it take AR mags or something else widespread?

How hard is it to get replacement uppers? How about uppers in novel calibers?

I know some people have FNC MGs here, so pipe up.

 

[RossinFL]

Noticed that select fire FNCs were significantly cheaper than ARs and are gas piston guns as well. But first some questions.

What sort of mags do they take? Special rare FNC mags or does it take AR mags or something else widespread?

There are FNC mags out there. They are fairly expensive, about $40 to $75. Genuine FNC mags are steel. You can use plain old AR mags and they work very well.

How hard is it to get replacement uppers? How about uppers in novel calibers?

I've only seen a few (like two) FNC uppers for sale on the net. I believe they sold for $900 to $1200 dollars. They are very hard to come by. I'm not aware of any caliber conversions for the FNC (one of the reasons they're cheaper than the M16).

I know some people have FNC MGs here, so pipe up.

Part supplies are somewhat limited but have gotten better as of late. Vulcan Imports stocks a fair assortment of small parts and accessories. As far as reliability they're very solid, about the only thing I've heard breaking is an occasional firing pin. On the basis of the feel alone, I would take an FNC machiengun over an M16 type anyday. In the M16's favor, you do get caliber conversions, readily availible replacement parts (including barrels and such), and a healthy supply of aftermart parts. This isn't availible for the FNC.

 

[beerslurpy]

Yeah, lately I have been thinking of getting a registered AR lower just because it will let me satisfy nearly all my pistol and rifle caliber MG needs in one fell swoop. But they are up to nearly 20k now, and that is just too damn pricey with me about to enter law school (its partly the 20k, partly the thousands more I woulds spend on all the other uppers and the ammo).

 

[RossinFL]

You could get a registered receiver M16 for about 10K, maybe a little less if you hunt around for a good deal. I saw a forged one sell for about 9K recently. A genuine Colt M16/M16a1 is about 13K now with M16A2's running higher depending on the configuration...

The M16 is a good option because of all the options! If you're primarily looking at pistol calibers you might want to check out a full size UZI. They're a good bit less. I believe about 6K.

www.subguns.com

www.sturmgewehr.com

Check out the above sites if you haven't already.

 

[RossinFL]

Almost forgot... another option is buying an FNC sear now (3K to 4K), then picking up an FNC host later (about 3K) and having S&H do the conversion ($600 last I heard). AFAIK Curtis is still doing conversions, make sure to verify if you're interested. More than likely, going this router would wind up costing you more than buying one that's already been converted.

 

[Langenator]

If you're not stuck on the ability to go full auto, you can wait a year or two for FN to release the SCAR-L and -H to the public, since the SCARs are based heavily on the FNC, but with the latest and greatest rails and other doohickeys.

I've heard price estimates in the $1500-1800 range, a good bit less than an FNC.

 

[beerslurpy]

I already have plenty of Title 1 toys.

 

[beerslurpy]

Thanks for the links guys. I totally forgot about sturmgewehr.com.

What do you think of this? After watching that vid I really want one. 11.1" barrel for the lose. I would totally have to go 20" A1 upper. I had no idea you could get them for only 10k. I hate the stupid 86 ban.

 

[Medusa]

I had no idea you could get them for only 10k

Heh, I got my HK G36K (SFA) for 2 grands, including transportation&co. Weep, baby.
Otherwise, FNC is in service as AK5 in Sweden, haven't heard that they'd be unhappy with it. And FNC accepts all STANAG-mags (NATO standarization, of course). So I'd think the M16 mags will do just fine.

 

[RossinFL]

If it were me this would be my order of preference..

m16A2
m16A1-m16
forged small hold registered receiver (like a Sendra and some Olympic Arms)
forged large hole registered receiver (such as an SP1 lower)
quality reweld (like a Norell or Stemple)
cast registered receiver (like an Essential Arms)

At 10,500 you're well within the price range where you should be able to pick up a complete gun with forged non-reweld lower. Although Stemple did do good rewelds (from what I've heard), I'd still go with a non-reweld. The Us Property markings mean nothing being that the gun is a reweld. Put up a WTB on Sturmgewehr. I think you'll get some offers. Oh and don't forget to check out a registered drop in auto sear (although they are about 13K and pretty hard to find).

You should also check out the www.Ar15.com m16 forum. There's a lot of pertinent info there.

 

[beerslurpy]

Is a reweld like a REWAT or something? I'm more familiar with this scene from the legal end, and sometimes the jargon confuses me.

Again, thanks for all your help guys, especially the pricing.

Also, what are the small and large hole receivers? Never heard of that before.

 

[RossinFL]

A reweld is much different than a rewatt. A rewelded receiver has been saw cut typically into two pieces. Someone (Stemple in this case) then used a jig to weld the two pices back together. In the case of a rewatt, someone usually plugs the barrel, welds the bolt into the chamber, etc. If a gun is demilled (saw cut), it is taken out of the registery. For all intents and purposes its just a piece of metal. Upon being rewelded the C2 is essentially creating a new firearm so it's entered into the NFA registry again as a totally new firearm. Because of this the US property marks mean nothing. In the case of a dewatt the gun stays in the registry. You need to notify ATF (I believe) before rewatting the gun. Rewatts retain their collectible value. The form 4 in the registry retains the name of the original manufacture where as in the case of the H&R in the link you provided, the manufacturer will be listed as Stemple being that he made the gun. Man I hope I didn't confuse you....

 

[beerslurpy]

No I completely understood you.

My main confusion is over fair market prices. What would be a decent price to acquire a stemple reweld for example? One guy has a stemple at 10.5k for a complete gun, but an earlier poster said 10.5 is closer to the value for an unwelded A2.

I just need general guidelines so I can negotiate without getting suckered into paying too much.

Thanks again. And I would definitely prefer FA/SA vs 3burst/SA. The concept of the 3-burst cam system doesnt really make sense to me. I mean, I understand how it works, but I dont know why someone would design a gun that way intentionally.

I care less about academic questions of collectability than I do about having a gun that fires FA.

 

[RossinFL]

An unwelded A2 would be at 15K or more, depending on configuration. There's many fewer m16a2's in the registry as opposed to m16a1's/m16's/RR's/etc.

Colt m16A2 - 15k or more
Colt m16A1-m16 - 12.5K or more
forged small hold registered receiver (like a Sendra and some Olympic Arms)
- 9K to 11K
forged large hole registered receiver (such as an SP1 lower)
- 9K to 11K
quality reweld (like a Norell or Stemple)
- 8K to 10K
cast registered receiver (like an Essential Arms)
-8K to 10K

If you really want a reweld just make sure it's a good one. As far as burst, you'll only find that in some of the m16a2's. If you do happen to get one with burst, it's no big deal you can change out the fire control parts.

If I were you'd I'd post a "wanted to buy" on Sturmgewehr.com, and maybe even one on subguns.com. It's free on Sturmgewehr and an ad costs $5 on subguns. If you post a WTB ad, you should get a fair amount of replies. Don't be in a huge hurry, the m16 market has been stagnant for a while. Of course the introduction of some new whiz bang, everyone's gotta have it upper could change that. I'd keep posting an wait for the right deal to come along.

You should also consider this when evaluating price. If you buy a gun in state you'll be paying one $200 transfer fee. If you buy one out of state there will be two $200 transfer fee's providing the gun is out of state on a form 4. If it's out of state on a form 3, the gun will transfer tax free to your instate dealer. If two $200 fee's are due (such as if you're buying from an out of state non dealer), you can sometimes negotiate with the seller and get him to pay one of the two fee's. And last but not least, sales tax may also be charged on an in state purchase.

let me know if you have any other questions...

 

[beerslurpy]

Awesome, thanks.

 

[RossinFL]

no problem... feel free to pm me if you have any more questions. i had a ton of questions when I bought my first NFA firearm...

 

[mp510]

If a gun is demilled (saw cut), it is taken out of the registery

Saw cut is not demilled. To meet BATFE standards of being demilled, the reciever must be destroyed by a number of cuts (usually multiple cuts) that make it impossible to put back together. BATFE required it to be torch cut, and they specifically warn against saw cut. Each specific destruction method gets approved by them. Also, 1/4 inch is removed at each cut.

 

[RossinFL]

"Saw cut is not demilled. To meet BATFE standards of being demilled, the reciever must be destroyed by a number of cuts (usually multiple cuts) that make it impossible to put back together. BATFE required it to be torch cut, and they specifically warn against saw cut. Each specific destruction method gets approved by them. Also, 1/4 inch is removed at each cut."

You're right... my mistake there. At one point I believe saw cutting was accepted. now it's not.