Tell me about the Winchester 94, please?

[VacuumJockey]

Background: I'm visiting family in the US, and my cousin recently moved house. As I'm helping him move stuff out of storage, he brings out two guncases, commenting that the guns inside probably needs some TLC. When we get home and unpack, it turns out that the guns inside are a Sears & Roebuck 20-gauge shotgun - and a Winchester model 94 30-30 rifle.

Obviously I would love to shoot this classic rifle (we don't have lever action rifles in Denmark) and as we talk about it, my cousin casually mentions that he got it "sometime in the mid-sixties". While a firm believer in the 2. amendment, my cousin is not what you would call a gun enthusiast and he had no idea that vintage 94's were considered special.

Now, I know from THR that Win-94's from before 1964 are considered the best - but I don't know if this rifle is pre-64, or even why this is considered A Good Thing -- so how can I find out?

 

[paintballdude902]

i believe it had something to do with not being required to have a safety

when they added the safety it kinda changed the design which had been working great for 70 years "if it aint broke dont fix it"

correct me if im wrong guys

 

[mnrivrat]

THe manufacturing techniques changed in that year. They went to stamped parts rather than machined and the quality went down hill as a result. Pre-1964 Winchester 94's are of better fit and finish, with machined parts.

The SN will tell you what year the gun was manufactured - post it and you will get a year of manufacture, or you can do a web search for manufacturing dates or the Winchester model 94 and will be able to find the information that way. If you post the SN (serial number) you can just yse XX for the last two digets to prevent people from knowing the exact SN of the gun.

Edit : PS I think the first rifles built in 1964 started with SN 2700000 so prior to that SN would be pre-64 production .

 

[goon]

As far as shooting the rifle goes, it should be just fine to use with regular ammunition.
I just bought a box of 30-30 today for $12.
A small investment to be able to say you shot one of those American cowboy rifles, isn't it.

BTW - how come you don't have any lever actions in Denmark?

 

[ReadyontheRight]

A pre-1964 model 94 is desirable, but not worth a whole lot more than a post-1964 model 94.

It's the model 70 bolt action rifle that went through a major change in 1964.

The Winchester 94 you have might be worth a little more if it was built before 1964. Check out the serial number advice posted above.

But that is not reason to not shoot the gun and have some fun. Just be sure to clean the barrel with a BoreSnake and not a standard aluminum cleaning rod.

SHOOTING will not hurt a gun, but bad cleaning WILL.

I am also curious why you cannot have lever actions in Denmark. Are you allowed autoloading rifles? Pump-action rifles? Bolt action rifles?

 

[VacuumJockey]

Thank you! I'll check the serial number the next time I'm over at my cousin's.

As for the lack of lever action rifles in Denmark -- I believe it's more a matter of taste and/or gun culture than any actual anti-lever legislation. You just don't see them in the hands of hunters here, although I did actually see an Uberti lever-action rifle in a gunshop some years ago. It was in the same rack as the blackpowder rifles; I don't know what to make of this.

(It's even more odd considering that deer are about the largest huntable animals in Denmark -- one would think that that fact alone would make a good lever-action rifle a popular choice.)

 

[wulf]

SASS is the largest organization of Cowboy shooting sports

And they have about a half dozen clubs in Germany and about 4 in the Netherlands. If you are interested in shooting Winchesters, this would be a good place to start.

 

[ftierson]

What most 'purists' try to avoid is rifles produced between 1964 and 1968...

It was during this time that some components were even made out of sintered metals (for example, the cartridge lifter).

However, even during this period of time, the rifles were still quite nice.

Some of the nicest M94s that I have were made in the 1996/97 period, with hammer forged barrels and quite nice wood and metal finish...

Forrest

 

[JNewell]

Heretical opinion alert...

The ones I like best as shooters are the early angle-ejects without the cross-bolt safety. Contrary to some (most?), I think the rebounding hammer is a useful improvement in the field.

 

[hangtime]

a little heresy never hurt anybody. . . . .

I think your opinion about the early Angle Ejects is right on the money. Hey, we've all heard that old saying, "A Winchester 94 without a crossbolt safety is like a fish without a bicycle." Right?

 

[bogie]

Lever guns are fun. You'll like shooting it. But it really isn't all that special, unless you have a table at a guns how, and someone who isn't all that bright fondling it.

 

[Baba Louie]

Tell me about the Winchester 94, please

Vac, do a google search on "John Moses Browning", maybe adding the words "Winchester 94" to the search for the basic knowledge (the man was amazing). But then again, the 94's evolutionary history might be traced back to the 1852 Volcanic Repeating Arms or the 1848 Volition repeating rifle (see Horace Smith & Daniel Wesson's place in that evolution as well as B. Tyler Henry)

http://gunblast.com/End-of-an-era.htm

http://www.gunhuntermag.com/Articles/tabid/113/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/135/Default.aspx

Pre 64, post 64, AE, cross bolt safety or tang location, Musket, Rifle, carbine, Trapper, smokeless powder, chambered for pistol or rifle cartridge, centerfire or rimfire, .410 as well at the end of production life, Commemeratives galore (if thats important), the 1894 has a whole lot of history behind it... maybe too much history for one to absorb at one sitting.

If you do get a chance to shoot your cousin's 94, by all means, buy a box or 5 of ammunition and go turn some money into noise and holes in paper.

But it really isn't all that special...

I might disagree w/ bogie a tad bit on that statement, but acknowledge that the 94 is a rifle we took for granted just because it was always there... and then, it wasn't. (with only several million already in circulation mind you) In the proper caliber the 94 is just another deer hunting rifle... perhaps limited by the cartridge.

 

[rcmodel]

But it really isn't all that special...

Just try buying a Pre-64 94 in excellent or better condition and you will quickly change your openion!

rcmodel

 

[Cosmoline]

I love the 1894 and the .30 WCF. I just got back from the range where I tested out a 1940's production '94. Still shoots just fine. I toted the big .54's in the bike trailer and put the 94 in my backpack scabbard. To give you an idea of how different things are here than your own home, I walked into a Wendys to get lunch on the way back with that rifle sticking out of my backpack in easy arm's reach. Nobody batted an eye. But I had to wait ten minutes for my spicy chicken thing. You'd think an enormous bearded Alaskan with a Winchester rifle would get some respect.



The rifle is designed for hunting. It was not a military rifle shifted to sporting, but a purpose-built sporting rifle. AFAIK the first non-military rifle factory chambered for smokeless anywhere in the world. The 1894 is known for reliable accuracy from 2 MOA to 3 MOA or so. Minute of deer, basically. It is not a tack driver and was never intended to be a tack driver. It is one of the best-balanced firearms ever made, along with Browning's 1892 carbine. It handles very fast in the hand and can be cycled without breaking the weld. It points naturally and is easy to tote through very rough conditions. This has made it an enduring favorite for hunters in north and south America (not just the USA). I've even heard the Boer farmers loved them as lion medicine back in the day. The Win 94 has had a long but less well known history as a weapon for law enforcement, as well. It was firing an intermediate, expanding round fifty years before anyone came up with the modern assault rifle. It is absolutely lethal against medium size thin skinned game. Whether that's a rogue bear or a rogue criminal.

The .30 WCF/ .30-30 was designed alongside the rifle. It's a now-archaic bottleneck rimmed design but continues to get the job done. Almost all current factory ammo for the .30-30 is sp or hp and is a tried-and-tested round. They do not have stunning paper ballistics, but like the 6.5 Swede they hit out of proportion to their size and speed. They have taken every animal on the continent up to and including small whales and large walrus. Many of the largest bear were taken with them before the bear realized a .30-30 was not enough to kill them.

The rifle and cartridge also have a long history in Indian country as a subsistence rifle, though more modern rifles have largely supplanted them at least up here. You can still find some floating around

 

[Bullet Bob]

You don't say where you re in the US; maybe if it you would list a general location, like, "central North Carolina", a High Road member would take you to his or her range as a guest.

 

[W.E.G.]

Paid $94 for my 94 in 74.

 

[luckytexan]

like mnrivrat says...

the biggest difference between pre-'64 and post-'64 are the manufacturing methods; the pr-'64s had better materials and more hand fitting. Still there are plenty of newer Model 94's that shoot just fine. While I'm more interested in the pre-'64's, I wouldn't turn my nose up a post-'64 with honest wear.

Here is a website that will give you a date of manufacture on your cousin's Model 94. Just enter the serial number.

http://www.savage99.com/winchester1894_dates.htm

 

[Hiaboo]

I will have to add this, the 94 is an awesome rifle, a perfect reloading platform. I'd definately say you must try a few rounds of lead bullets loaded with pistol powder, very very gentle and accurate to boot, t his makes it a heck of alot of fun to shoot.

 

[243winxb]

Win 94 accidental discharge

Pre-'64 Model 94's rely on the hammer's safety notch to prevent an accidental discharge when carried with the chamber loaded. The latest versions of the angle-eject Model 94 have an unobtrusive sliding tang safety in addition to a hammer safety notch.The models without a safety that use a Half cock are noted to be the most accidental discharge prone guns ever made. In fact, you can no longer file a law suit againt the company for injuries caused by accidental discharge. Have you ever had your finger slip off the hammer when you were letting it down???

 

[Cosmoline]

The models without a safety that use a Half cock are noted to be the most accidental discharge prone guns ever made.

Where are you getting this? The half cock is used on HUNDREDS of different single action rifles and handguns and worked fine for CENTURIES. The external safeties were added on Marlins and USRAC wins in the 1980's due to idiotic lawsuits brought by people who misused the firearm or had freak accidents. If you don't have common sense, the tang or cross bolt safety will not help you either. It's just there to use as an argument in court.

Besides, the tang safety you reference was only in place during the final years of the doomed USRAC. Before that they had a cross-bolt widely recognized as one of the worst safety devices ever made by man. There are dozens upon dozens of websites with detailed instructions on how to deactive the thing and send it back to the pit. USRAC's decision to mess with the classic design are widely recognized as one of the main reasons for its demise and the death of the 94.

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

I grew up believing that the 94 30-30 was inadequate. that's because I believe what was told to me when I was young. I am wiser now. I will never rid myself of the model 94 I have.
The 30-30 Winchester that belongs to the model 94 hits harder than most can understand. I am confident with the 30-30 I have and love it. The only small drawback is reloading the model 94. Most want removable magazines nowadays. Look at it this way on a positive note. In a real situation you will rarely need to reload anyway.

 

[ftierson]

Originally posted by 243winxb
Pre-'64 Model 94's rely on the hammer's safety notch to prevent an accidental discharge when carried with the chamber loaded. The latest versions of the angle-eject Model 94 have an unobtrusive sliding tang safety in addition to a hammer safety notch.The models without a safety that use a Half cock are noted to be the most accidental discharge prone guns ever made. In fact, you can no longer file a law suit againt the company for injuries caused by accidental discharge. Have you ever had your finger slip off the hammer when you were letting it down???

NO...

But, then again, I don't drink when I shoot and I'm not a complete spastic like some people (who, just not coincidently, are probably the ones who like the cross-bolt safety)...

Forrest

 

[243winxb]

Safety History The Quote is from the web.

In 1992 an unsightly and completely superfluous crossbolt safety that blocks the hammer was introduced for lawyers and other people too ignorant to use the hammer's safety notch, which by 1992 had been the standard safety procedure with lever action rifles for well over 100 years. In 2003 Winchester dealt with this problem by moving the safety to the top tang, where is is less intrusive

My above info comes from memory of an article in a Shooting Sports Retail Magazine http://www.shootingsportsretailer.com/i received years ago. As i own a M94 30 WCF i never forgot the article. When the companies changed hands, the new owners had some law process done so that they would not face a law suit caused by the old model 94's without a safety. The article went on to say somethink like The models without a safety that use a Half cock are noted to be the most accidental discharge prone guns ever made. This is because many millions were made. No 12 year old just starting hunting should be giving a model 94 without a safety IMO.

 

[243winxb]

found different date for the cross bolt safety 1982 & 1992

http://www.chuckhawks.com/win_94.htm and another one. http://www.nrapublications.org/TAR/Winchester94.asp I think i like the 1992 date myself :banghead:

 

[Cosmoline]

Hmmm. Well I take serious issue with that article. I'm not sure about the magazine, either. It sounds like a salesman's rag with selling points. I can tell you that every authority on the Winchester I have read agrees that the crossbolt safety was profoundly stupid, pointless and ugly. I can also tell you there was no such nationwide legal protection. There were a number of suits from people who dropped their Winchesters (so they claimed) and shot themselves. The plaintiffs lawyers hired some hacks to testify that the firing pin of the 94 could set off primers from inertial force, that the half cock was defective, etc. It was the same method of attack they used against Ruger for their single action revolvers. The lawyer safety would have been used to counter these attacks in future lawsuits. I has no relevance to the real world, only the courtroom in the peculiar context of products liability law.

This article sums up my view of the matter:

This is probably the worst addition ever made to a rifle. John Browning, the designer of the gun, probably did a back-flip in his grave when Winchester pulled this one.

http://www.gunblast.com/LFCombs-Win94.htm

1982 was the date when USRAC bought out the firearm making part of Winchester and made some initial changes to the firearm. The coil spring and rebounding hammer for starters. They later added the angle eject and in the early 90's the crossbolt safety, which was eventually changed to a less obnoxious tang safety in the last days of USRAC.

The key is never to assume any rifle is drop safe, at least not this side of a Mosin with a 20 lb. safety. And also don't shoot yourself and make up some story so you can sue the company.