Tell me about trap, skeet, clays

[Norton]

I've been finding myself getting a little bored with punching holes in paper lately (though the new CZ452 belayed that somewhat today).

I got to thinking today that some of the shotgunning sports might be a nice change of pace, but I have to admit my complete ignorance of the equipment, rules, etc. In fact, I'll concede to my complete ignorance of shotguns in general......

So...can anyone point me towards a primer on these various sports?

or, if so inclined post for the benefit of all

1. In a nutshell, what is the difference between sporting clays, trap, skeet?
2. What do you see as being the minimum equipment, gun wise, for these sports? Will an off the shelf Mossberg 500 do OK for non-competitive purposes?
3. 12 gauge or 20 gauge?
4. Are these guns choked (correct term?) in a specific manner for these sports?


What else am I missing

As always, thanks for helping out us neophytes

 

[Preacherman]

Norton, for a number of "bite-size" introductions, see the Remington courses here. They're actually pretty good - scroll down and pick the ones you'd like to look at. You can also use the Flash movie introductions at the Remington Safety Center - see here. In fact, it might be a good idea to start at that second link - scroll down to "The Remington Guide to Shotgun Basics", and run through it. If you don't have the necessary Flash extensions to your browser, you can load them there.

 

[ysr_racer]

Skeet is for cranky old ladies, trap is for cranky old men. Sporting Clays is where the fun is.

Here's a couple of useful links:

http://www.remington.com/whatsnew/skeet/skeet.htm

http://www.remington.com/whatsnew/trap/trap.htm

Skeet Field

Trap Field

Spoting Clays Field

 

[sm]

Skeet is for old ladies, trap is for cranky old men. Sporting Clays is where the fun is.

No wonder I'm screwed up
I competed in Skeet for years and years.
I have shot trap.
I competed in S/C
I competed in 5 stand ( you missed one).
I competed /played $Live Pigeons$ ( ahem) ...nevermind. ( another missed)
Steels, and whatever we called the stuff we were doing...

Norton , find a club that has at least one discipline, often some have more than one. Skeet requires open chokes as targets shot within 25 yds. Trap needs a tighter choke , full most often. 5 stand and S/C usually IC is all you need , but have shot some where I needed tighter.

You'll probably find someone whom will take ( invite to) a club , check the public ranges too. Regardless be safe, have fun and get instructions. Pattern your gun/choke and loads for intended use/games...markings mean nothing on bbl/chokes...pattern board tells all.

If your lucky and find a mentor , listen and focus on fit, form, stance, postioning...the scores will come , the basics have to be learned and ingrained first.

Guns: Skeet , just stay with the 12 ga to learn. There are 4 ga ( 12, 20. 28 and .410) I competed with self shucker in 12 and used a 3 bbl set for the other ga's. Some use the same gun ( 12 ga, but has tubes for the other 3) I was competing before the tubes "really" became the "current" perference.

Trap: 12 ga ( though I have played the 28 ga Trap deal...yeah buddy..fun)
5 stand and S/C 12 ga is fine, Though I did use my 20 a bunch and we had a 28 ga and 410 fun shoot. [ still got the Teal Dave with 410, missed the rabbit...sorry inside joke].

Live Pigeon...you don't even want to know at this point...trust me

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[ysr_racer]

Here's the truth about trap skeet and clays.

Skeet is shot on a semi circle course. There are 8 stations. You shoot 25 birds. There's a trap on the left (the high house) and a trap on the right (the low house). All the targets do, is cross. You always get a high house bird first and a low house bird second. At station 1, 2, 6 & 7 in addition to a single high house and a single low house bird, you get a true pair.

Trap is shot on a 1/8-circle course (think station 2 to 6 in skeet). There's one trap machine in front of you (think station 8 in skeet). There are 5 stations and you shoot 5 single birds from each of the stations. You shoot 25 birds. All the birds ever do, is go away from you.

Sporting clays is usually shot on a course with 10 to 14 stations spread out over some distance. Every station is different. Every sporting clays course in the world, is different (think golf courses). At a 10-station course, you shoot 10 birds from each station to make 100. You can get out-goers, in-comers, cross-ers and any combination of them. It's WAY more fun than shooting the same birds over and over and over and over.

Give all 3 a try and decide for yourself.

Brad

 

[Dave McCracken]

Norton, I live in Columbia. What part of MD are you in? After gun season maybe we can get together.

Yes, a Mossberg 500 will work off the shelf. Get one with a short barrel for HD and deer hunting and a 28" barrel with choke tubes for the clay stuff and hunting flying stuff and small game. 12 gauges have greater choices of ammo. Use light loads for starters...

Jerry Meyer's Clay Target Handbook gives a nice overview of the games. B&N carries it, and it may be at your local library under Dewey Decimal Sytem 799.

 

[Norton]

Dave,

I live in Annapolis, but I work in Greenbelt....so the PG Range is right near my work.

I'll check on that book and start looking at saving up some $$ for the shotgun.

As I said, my shotgunning experience is virtually nil, consisting of a couple of plinking sessions with a .410 when I was a kid....so I'm going to have to do some serious studying on chokes, etc.

I'd love to get together sometime for a session, I'll bring the ammo and an open mind if you bring the gun and a lot of patience

 

[Norton]

Thanks all....lots of good information already (as usual). I'm going to have to do some reading about shotgunning in general since my experience is for all purposes non-existent.

I learn best by doing, so hopefully I can get together or some other Maryland sensei to help me get my feet wet.

Have a great Thanksgiving one and all.....

 

[Jim Watson]

I think dabbling around in multiple events can be frustrating to the beginner.

Sporting clays is only fun IF you are a good basic shot and can handle the wide variety of target presentations.

Charles Askins once said he could teach somebody the basics of trap sooner, but he could train him to be a good skeet shot faster.

From what I have seen and done, an experienced skeet shooter can learn trap easier than vice versa.

Skeet and sporting clays have doubles in every round; four pairs of doubles, eight targets out of 25 at skeet; whatever the course designer comes up with at S.C. There are also trap doubles, but shot as a separate event. You gotta be quick to shuck a pumpgun for doubles. It can be done, it used to be done regularly before reliable autos and over-unders were common, but it is an extra skill that adds challenge.

 

[ysr_racer]

Jim Watson, that's a good point. I was looking at it from my point of view after having shot all three.

I agree, the basics of informal 16-yard trap are easy to learn. Also I used to shoot singles all the way around when I was learning to shoot skeet. Lots of people still do.

In fact most of the people where I shoot, don't compete they just want to blast a few clays.

Same thing when we shoot informal sporting clays, if you want to shoot singles, it's OK with us.

brad

 

[sm]

Re: Jim Watson's post.
FOR ME ,
I have to agree with your post 110%.
IN my case, I wanted to become one better with a shotgun. I had started out with handguns and rimfire, then centerfire rifles. So using a Shotgun on stationary targets and game was no biggie.

Moving Targets I'd "get by", heck I could hit a running bunny with a rimfire handgun or rifle...shotguns and quail/doves...I was trying to "aim" not "point" the SG. One of the hardest things to overcome for a new shooter.

Only good thing in MY favor--I was a young brat. My body hadn't "developed" yet...as the elders whom were mentoring me said...meaning "full hard-headedness" hadn't been attained --yet.

I started with skeet, crude "round the clock" <grin> skeet but that is how I was taught. Gee what a surprise when I shot my first round and concrete under my feet

Perhaps my elders used Charles Askins as my guide, I really don't know nor recall his name being used. Isleng, Misseldine and Brister are the names I remember and remember reading their works.

For ME I think learning skeet first was best. My bird hunting improved drasitically, as did my confidence, self esteem.

Skeet learned from low gun as I learned , was a real plus in the field. Using the skeet field , I was often taught in prep for bird season to shoot off the stations. Meaning shoot b/t the sta's move forward, back...and the birds were pulled , I didn't call for them. Some call this the "quail walk".

Trap for me, I can get by, but I never put the hold points and such to heart. My buddies would give me a quick run down...but I just approached it like low gun and hunting...I watched the birds and the wind from other shooters...just orange quail to me

Using skeet as I was Taught, low gun , basics, and all, I became very comfy with a SG. Heck 5 stand and S/C , My attitude was "big orange" food for the table --and I'm hungry. somebody just put trees , extended the range on my quail walk on the skeet field.

I belive Mr Watson may have just explained to me what my elders were doing to me out on that deserted pasture so many years ago. Hot/cold, dusty, muddy and the grass up to my knees.

Yeah, old farts would bust me down, taught humility, don't brag to a bunch of fellas you hadn't missed doubles at "2" in a while...model 12 in 20 ga gets replaced with model 42...< grin> Maybe I wanted to shoot the 42 old farts never thought of that one --huh?

"Old farts" is not being used in a derogatory manner, it is whqt they called themselves and wished what I'd become. I believe curmudgeon status it similiar...its the shooter not the gun that hits the bird. I f I had a dollar for everytime I heard that...I'd be rich.

So I teach and recommend skeet first...seems easier for shooter to transition later...for sure they fell more doves.

 

[Lennyjoe]

ysr_racer, Next time you come down to Southern Arizona for a sport clay shoot give me a holler. I would love to shoot some.

By the way, where at in Southern Az do you shoot?

 

[ysr_racer]

Lennyjoe, I'll be in AZ in early Jan 2004. I'll be shooting at Ben Avery in Phx. on Thursday Jan 8th and Picacho Sporting Clays(near Tucson) on Saturday Jan 10th. Would you like to join us?

brad

 

[Lennyjoe]

Will be in my way back from Ogden Utah on the 8th.

But I should be available on the 10th. Will put it on my calander. Maybe we can get Blades67 and Opencarry to join us. We shot clays up at the THR shoot back in Nov. Was a good time.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Sounds good, Norton, though a week from Sunday may be the first chance I get. This Sunday is the first legal Sunday deer hunting in MD, and I've plans(G)...

Let's set it up for 10AM that Sunday at PGC, weather permitting. Bring or buy some 1 oz loads in 8 shot. I may have an extra 870 around here somewhere(G).

I also suggest you look at the 101 series of threads. There's plenty of good info for new shotgunners.

I'll PM you a little closer to the day and give you my cell number.

 

[Norton]

Dave,

Sounds good. Let me know what works for you! Lookin' forward to it...

 

[ysr_racer]

Norton, all clay games require that you use shot no bigger than 7.5 (8 & 9 are smaller). I buy Winchester Value Packs at WalMart. $14.88 for 100 shells.

brad

P.S. ALWAYS WEAR EAR AND EYE PROTECTION

 

[sar]

The one thing I really enjoy about Trap is for a lack of better words - the closeness of the competition. It can be pressure filled when doing a shotoff when you are all on station. I think the best advice is find one discipline you like and learn it well before trying others. The games and guns you need are different and you may get frustrated.