I went ahead and got a scale. Glad I did. Eyeballing those Lee scoopers was very inconsistent, and i was running just up to if not past the 4.9 grain Titegroup recommended loads. I started out pressing a few JRN magtech 115gr ball I had with a few 4.2, 4.4, and 4.6 grain Titegroup loads with a 1.133 - 1.136 OAL. going to test them out this weekend. looking for a lighter target load for plinking a lot with. just enough to cycle my glock 17 reliably. it will take some learning to actually get decent groups i would guess, but just getting a powder load that works seems like a good step. Not sure about clean holes versus powder ring holes, if they were from the same powder. seems like one may have been loaded hotter and had more unburnt powder following it???? were they at the same range of fire?