I would beat feet as quietly and quickly as possible out of the store, call 911, then retreat way out into the parking lot or across the street. I wouldn't be shooting anybody, because I've never seen a bomb and wouldn't trust myself to recognize one.
Terrorism - What would you do if...
- Thread starter rick_reno
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bogie
Member
Since I'm sure that the trauma plates in my Level XVIII vest will contain the explosion, I'll pull my NEF Handirifle from its place of concealment in my pants, stuff a .45/70 up the pipe, stealthily climb on top of a display using my ninjaboots, and take aim before yelling "Hey, not in MY food court!"
entropy
Member
I'd retreat to a hopefully safe distance and call 911 for the CIRT and EOD teams. Let the pros
handle it.That NEF has the Shotforce doll-up kit on it so it's a tactical NEF
right, bogie?HankB
Member
If I KNEW it was a suicide bomber, I'd shoot him in the head.
The odds of me getting a good enough look to KNOW - understand, that's KNOW, and not merely SUSPECT - it was an explosives filled vest are very, very, slim.
And I'm not going to start shooting on a hunch. I'd feel real bad if I had a shot at a terrorist and didn't take it, but I'd feel even worse if I mistakenly killed some poor innocent.
The odds of me getting a good enough look to KNOW - understand, that's KNOW, and not merely SUSPECT - it was an explosives filled vest are very, very, slim.
And I'm not going to start shooting on a hunch. I'd feel real bad if I had a shot at a terrorist and didn't take it, but I'd feel even worse if I mistakenly killed some poor innocent.
I've seen that show. Once. If the whole thing isn't totally staged - including the person playing the part of the so-called "victim" - one of these days someone is going to get badly hurt or killed.
OK so we all KNOW it is an explosive this guy is wearing. That is all well and fine but, many of you want to do a double tap to the head and that is not so well and fine in my opinion. Why? Well do we know what type of detonator the fellow has? Could be that he has some sort of a deadman's switch. You shoot him, he dies, he lets go of the switch and kaboom. Or, he falls over and the mercury switch (not all deadman's switches are hand held) triggers and, kaboom up goes the whole area around him in the mall.
Of course, it could well be that this guy does have live explosives without a deadman's switch but, maybe he was not about to set them off either. Could be some form of scare tactic. Your shot could set them off if you miss. There are also other considerations. Is the mall crowded? Is anyone in the line of fire behind the target? Are you good enough a shot to hit this guy center mass as he is moving, let alone to hit him in the head? Is anyone else there also packed with explosives who will detonate them as soon as you start shooting? I am not saying that a well placed head shot necessarily is out of the question, it may well be the answer. I am saying that you have to analyze the situation at hand as best you can, then act. There is nowhere enough information given in the initial thread for you to konw all the details that would be right there in front of you if involved in a real life situation like this. While actually involved, and while you are analyzing it, a call to 911 may be in order. In addition you may want to be looking for some darned heavy cover too from which you can fire a supported shot. Are you going to shoot this guy from right out in the open? This is not a cowboy movie we are talking about. This probably would require at least a bit of analysis before I would shoot.
all the best,
Glenn B
Of course, it could well be that this guy does have live explosives without a deadman's switch but, maybe he was not about to set them off either. Could be some form of scare tactic. Your shot could set them off if you miss. There are also other considerations. Is the mall crowded? Is anyone in the line of fire behind the target? Are you good enough a shot to hit this guy center mass as he is moving, let alone to hit him in the head? Is anyone else there also packed with explosives who will detonate them as soon as you start shooting? I am not saying that a well placed head shot necessarily is out of the question, it may well be the answer. I am saying that you have to analyze the situation at hand as best you can, then act. There is nowhere enough information given in the initial thread for you to konw all the details that would be right there in front of you if involved in a real life situation like this. While actually involved, and while you are analyzing it, a call to 911 may be in order. In addition you may want to be looking for some darned heavy cover too from which you can fire a supported shot. Are you going to shoot this guy from right out in the open? This is not a cowboy movie we are talking about. This probably would require at least a bit of analysis before I would shoot.
all the best,
Glenn B
M2 Carbine
member
I think we need to find that Israeli lady that shot the suicide bomber and ask her how it's done.
From our inconsistant answers I feel for us.
When the terrorists start up again in the US they haven't much to fear from us pistol packers.
From our inconsistant answers I feel for us.
When the terrorists start up again in the US they haven't much to fear from us pistol packers.
Aikibiker,
I am not certain but that second guy looks familiar from the news some months or a year or so back. Wasn't that second guy the one who told them he had the explosive vest and didn't want to die? He gave himself up, wasn't caught, if I remember his face correctly. A good sign of hope if some of them are giving up before blowing up.
All the best,
Glenn B
I am not certain but that second guy looks familiar from the news some months or a year or so back. Wasn't that second guy the one who told them he had the explosive vest and didn't want to die? He gave himself up, wasn't caught, if I remember his face correctly. A good sign of hope if some of them are giving up before blowing up.
All the best,
Glenn B
Shalako
Member
Due to overpenetration concerns in a crowded area, I'd either break out my sap and whap the guy on the back of his head, or put him in one of my famous sleeper holds. Once the guy lost consciousness, I'd carefully defuse the bomb and then fix a martini.
Andrew Rothman
Member
I'd run over to the sporting goods counter for some JHP ammo. And wait... and wait... and wait...
Andrew Rothman
Member
Sigh.
If a guy is wired up with explosives at the local Walmart, it's a pretty good bet that he's gonna set it off -- probably any second.
Getting out of Dodge to save your own (and your family's) bee-hind is a valid choice. There's a good chance you can get out of the kill zone before the blast hits.
Taking the shot is a valid choice. Dead man's switches, accomplices, overpenetration... whatever. A helluva lot of people will almost certainly die if you don't take action. They might anyway, but you have a chance -- a chance -- to lower that number.
But imagining that the 9-1-1 cavalry will arrive in time to make a bit of difference is just that: imagination.
RevDisk
Member
Which is much more likely than actually seeing a suicide bomber in the first place and noticing he has a bomb.
I did. I was uh, dating an IDF soldier for a short bit of time. I sincerely hope her answer was not the norm for the IDF's ROE. "Is he Palestinian? Is there a chance he has a bomb?" If the answer is yes to both, she said she has shot before.
Some of the stories she told me were... discomforting. I'm very much used to American ROE's, and a high value of human life. While I don't blame her for her ah, disregard for human life (very gently putting it) due to her experiences, I would not want to serve in any unit with her.
Edit : She generally carries a rifle, not a pistol. She did meantion she tries to make sure no Israelis are nearby. If only Palestinians are nearby, she pulls the trigger. A lot of hatred in that girl.
jptsr1
Member
Pull the fire alarm (on my way out of the building).
J.
J.
Sportcat
Member
"Clean up on aisles 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12."
thereisnospoon
Member
I would use a Jedi mind trick and force him to strip naked ...
May the Schwartzzz be wid you
May the Schwartzzz be wid you
jefnvk
Member
Get out, maybe pull the fire alarm on the way out the door. 911 when we are out of the danger area.
And I think the Israelis probably have a bit more experience with this sort of thing, they are probably trained to handel these things.
And on another note, I never got the whole suicide bomber thing. WOuldn't it be easier and smarter to carry a huge purse into Wal-mart, packed with explosives, and set it on the rack with the other purses, run away and remotely detonate it?
And I think the Israelis probably have a bit more experience with this sort of thing, they are probably trained to handel these things.
And on another note, I never got the whole suicide bomber thing. WOuldn't it be easier and smarter to carry a huge purse into Wal-mart, packed with explosives, and set it on the rack with the other purses, run away and remotely detonate it?
Zach S
Member
Honestly, I dont know what I'd do, it wouldn't surpise me if I froze up, not being able to do anything.
That would be Scare Tactics. Fear Factor is the show where the contestants do stunts and eat disgusting stuff that would gag the roto-rooter guy.
Stirred, or shaken?
KriegHund
Member
Go alert the manager and hope they dont freak out or so something stupid.
ide rather, in this situation, leave it to the 'proffesionals"
ide rather, in this situation, leave it to the 'proffesionals"
MN_Strelok
Member
What? No one here would run to the meat counter and ask for a five gallon bucket of pork fat?
dhoomonyou
Member
Run
and call the troops from the outside.
UNLESS my Spider sense was tingling, in which case I would put my mall ninja nachos in my left hand, draw with my right and deliver a perfect triple tap to the bridge of the TANGOS nose.
THAN I could be interviewed by FOX AND CNN for saving the day.
and call the troops from the outside.
UNLESS my Spider sense was tingling, in which case I would put my mall ninja nachos in my left hand, draw with my right and deliver a perfect triple tap to the bridge of the TANGOS nose.
THAN I could be interviewed by FOX AND CNN for saving the day.
MikeIsaj
Member
Does anyone know the kill radius of the average person bomb? Seriously, I'm actually embarrassed that I don't know this and never gave it any thought before. Seems like an important bit of info when planning a response.
Strings
Member
Ok... I get a glimpse of the vest as his jacket catches, and KNOW it's a bomb?
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I go to the local gas station and buy lotto tickets!
Seriously though: if my suspicions were aroused, I'd drop back and call police. I WOULD stay in sight, while talking to Dispatcher Friendly, until troops arrived. IN the meantime, if he did something that looked like he was gonna blow (reach into his coat in a suspicious manner, etc), I'd scream an alert and dive for cover (preferrably as far to the other side of the store as possible)...
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I go to the local gas station and buy lotto tickets!
Seriously though: if my suspicions were aroused, I'd drop back and call police. I WOULD stay in sight, while talking to Dispatcher Friendly, until troops arrived. IN the meantime, if he did something that looked like he was gonna blow (reach into his coat in a suspicious manner, etc), I'd scream an alert and dive for cover (preferrably as far to the other side of the store as possible)...
RevDisk
Member
I know something of not-so-smart bombs. The answer is "It depends". It depends on which explosive (most common used to be semtex out of Pardubice, Czechosovakia), how much is used, storage conditions of the explosive, how it is shaped, how it is detonated, placement, sharpnel augmentation, etc.
Since the suicide bombs tend not to be tamped or shaped, most of the blast goes straight up. Notice hot air raises, or if you touch off a container of gasoline, the fireball goes nearly straight up (depending on the wind and other environmental conditions)?
If you're standing ten meters away from the blast, but you have a meter thick enforced concrete wall inbetween you and the blast, you'd probably survive a rather large untamped and unshaped charge. If you are 50 meters away, but a large display of glassware or nails are inbetween you and the blast... Well, nice knowing you and hope it's a closed casket funeral.
Sharpnel plays a very important role, obviously, in antipersonnel explosions. The concussion wave loses energy very quickly. Sharpnel on the other hand stays lethal for much longer distances.
As a rule of thumb, in the open with no obstructions or sharpnel producing objects, 75m to a 100m should be survivable. Something strong (ie, thick walls) inbetween you and the bomb would cut that distance dramatically. Watch out for falling sharpnel, tho.
FWIW, a MK3A2 offensive grenade, which uses 8 oz. of TNT in a fiberboard case, has an "effective casualty radius" of 2 meters in the open, and much further in confined spaces.
It's really going to depend on type and quantity of explosives used, and how enclosed a space you're in.
IIRC, Palestinian suicide bombings seem to have only 1 or 2 deaths on average (plus the bomber) when done out in the open, but more like 10-20 in enclosed spaces, like discos. Not sure though, would have to check.
It's really going to depend on type and quantity of explosives used, and how enclosed a space you're in.
IIRC, Palestinian suicide bombings seem to have only 1 or 2 deaths on average (plus the bomber) when done out in the open, but more like 10-20 in enclosed spaces, like discos. Not sure though, would have to check.
Zundfolge
Member
I've given this a lot of thought (mostly because I had a dream about just such a thing several months ago ... in the dream the suicide bomber's switch malfunctioned right after he yelled "Allah Akbar" or whatever they yell in the movies, so I shot him. Then he and I got in an argument about whether I hit him or missed him ... it was a dream, what do you want? ).
In reality, you're not going to be 100% sure its a suicide bomber until a few milliseconds before the shrapnel hits you. If you're far enough away to not be caught in the blast you'll never see the explosive apparatus.
This is a nice mental exercise, and I would never discourage people from doing "what if..." drills ... but this is more of a Kobayashi Maru type exercise. And there's no cheating this one
).In reality, you're not going to be 100% sure its a suicide bomber until a few milliseconds before the shrapnel hits you. If you're far enough away to not be caught in the blast you'll never see the explosive apparatus.
This is a nice mental exercise, and I would never discourage people from doing "what if..." drills ... but this is more of a Kobayashi Maru type exercise. And there's no cheating this one
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