Testing Lil' Gun in .357 magnum

[MCgunner]

Finally made it to the range to test my Lil' Gun .357 loads for my Rossi 92 carbine. I also took along a 6.5" Blackhawk for some testing.

I loaded 10 rounds of 16.8 grains Lil' Gun and 5 rounds of 18.2 grains Lil' gun behind a 158 SWC. This represents a 1.09 bushing and a 1.18 bushing in the Lee auto disc measure. The 5 hotter loads in the rifle were impressive. They shot 1961 fps/1339 ft lbs. Now, today was rather chilly at about 55 degrees. I got a little primer puching with the hot load that I don't see in the lighter load, so I'd say I ain't goin' any hotter, want to test the lighter load when the temps get up into the 90s in a few months. I'm on hold until then as I think the lighter load will give more performance and the hot load might be too hot. We'll see. Initial testing was good, though.

I then fired the other five 16.8 grain loads from the Ruger. I got poor accuracy, about 6" at 50 yards. I normally get 2" groups at that range with a good load. Velocity was right around 1400 fps, not bad there. Just that standard deviation was high, just looking at the raw numbers. I think this powder is a bit slow for handgun length barrels, what makes it better for rifles, I reckon.

Any advice or experience comments are welcome. I'm still assessing the results.

 

[Beagle-zebub]

The 5 hotter loads in the rifle were impressive. They shot 1961 fps/1339 ft lbs.

Holy cow! That, good sir, is a lot of juice.

 

[something vague]

Yeah man, that is some hot stuff right there man. I have no expereince with .357 in a carbine but it seems as though that load is a bit high for me. As long as you feel pressures are safe enough for you then have at it. That's some .357 on the juice.

 

[MCgunner]

Here's what reloadersnest.com says....

http://www.reloadersnest.com/detail.asp?CaliberID=189&BulletWeight=158&LoadID=9948

I've had a couple of folks on THIS board tell me about Lil' Gun in the carbine, how it turns the gun into a mini .35 Remington. I had to try it. It seems to work pretty well, though it's a few hundred FPS from being a .35 Remington, but still pretty danged hot for a deer/hog load to 100 yards.

 

[MCgunner]

Ah, went back and found the exact post in the hunting forum by "Goose Gestapo" that got me to thinkin' Lil' Gun with the carbine.

MCgunner;
We seem to have walked in each others tracks for many years, just about 1,000 mile apart!

My .357 kills have mostly been with shorter barreled revolvers. Several from a 4" S&W of various descriptions, a Ruger Sec.6, and a Win. M94, of course.

I've also killed a pig with the bullet you describe (Lee 158gr SWC). Mine however casts to 165gr. And yes, I use the 14.5gr of #2400. My rifle also shoots it to around 1,800fps.

However, I prefer the Remington 158gr SoftPt. over 17.8gr of HodLilGun for 2,100fps. It's kinda hard to tell the difference between the .357mag and the .35Rem.............

After reading this, and now having a much easier to use digital balance, I went and weighed some bullets and Goose was right, they do weigh out 165 grains a pop! So, I reckon I'll go with the lower charge of 16.8 grains which clocked 1829 fps. And, forget the energy calculation, will have to re-do that. LOL

 

[zxcvbob]

What length were those cartridges and how compressed was the powder?

I'll bet those 18.2's were pushing 50000 psi. The Blackhawk can probably handle it; is the 1892 strong enough for that much overpressure?

 

[rangerphil]

I don't have any direct experience with Lil Gun powder in .357, but I use it in full-powder .44 mag loads and it my favorite powder when I am trying to really push velocities.

 

[MCgunner]

I'm doubting pressure was that high today, but when the weather warms up, I'm worried it might be, thus I'll go to the safe side at 16.8 grains, more'n safe enough and I'm thinkin' in warmer weather it'll still push 1900 fps. It's a little faster than my 14.5 grains 2400 load and I'm thinking lower peak pressure. Wish I had an Ohler with a strain gauge to prove it.

The Rossi 92 is chambered for .454 Casull, so it can handle some pressure and case head thrust. My son-in-law has a .45 Colt 92 and shoots heavy .45 colt loads, Ruger only loads, in it. I'm lookin' to keep pressures lower than my 2400 loads, yet improve or at least equal it in velocity and I think the 16.8 grain load did that. The primers are dead flat, no crater or signs of pressure where the 14.5 grain 2400 loads show a little more cratering of the primer. I use small pistol, not magnum primers.

The loads weren't compressed, even the 18.2 grain load, but they fill the case pretty well, about as much as 2400 does.

I'm thinkin' with that bullet, 17.5 grains is going to be a max safe load especially in warmer weather, don't wanna exceed that, so 16.8 grains seems quite right and I'm good with it now having researched it enough. Problem I had is that nobody seems to list Lil' Gun much in this caliber. I couldn't even find a listing on the friggin' HODGDON site! I've found enough info now that I feel I have a handle on the powder now, at least with THIS bullet.

 

[SciFiJim]

I spoke with a guy from Cast Performance about 180 gr. WFN .357 loads for a carbine on Friday. He recommended Lil Gun for his cast bullets with a gas check(13.0 gr start - 15 gr. max). Looks like confirmation of good performance from another source. I haven't tried it yet. The Sportsman's Warehouse near me was out of Lil Gun yesterday. Had plenty of small pistol primers though. Now they have less.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I've also found that Lil'Gun will give you better results with heavier bullets in a .357 Magnum. Using the same CP 180gr bullet mentioned above I get very good accuracy from my Carbine at 100+ yards out. As for the 158gr LSWC bullet, I charge 17.6gr Lil'Gun which produces accurate .357 Magnum rounds.