Seeking info on Lil Gun for .357 loads...

[DHart]

Data for Lil Gun is a lil sparse... I'm especially looking for loads with the 140 gr. JHP in .357, trying to achieve about 1200 fps from a 3" revolver barrels (S&W 13 3", 65 3"; Ruger GP-100 3"). Any suggestions?

I know Lil Gun loads are relatively low pressure (great), but does it meter well in a Dillon 550 powder hopper? Is it relatively clean burning? Where does it rate regarding "speed" of burning?

Thanks for any info you can offer.

 

[Clark]

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.


*1950's vintage Colt Police Positive 38 Special 4" barrel, that I reamed the chambers out to 357 mag:
1) 18 gr. LIL'GUN 158 gr. XTP 1.59", WSPM, 1173 fps [Hodgdon max load]
3) 23.5 gr. LIL'GUN 158 gr. XTP 1.59", WSPM, 1155 fps


I wrote Hodgdon and asked why they stopped at 18 gr a 25kpsi, and they said that was all the powder they could fit in the case.
I asked them why not use the 158 gr LSWC, and they said that LIL'GUN was melting the bottom of the bullet.

What I found was that more LIL'GUN past 18 gr just makes the revolver kick harder, make more noise, and more peak pressure. The chrono was not impressed. I was impressed with the high velocity at low pressures. I can get a 158 gr moving faster than that with a .380 and Power Pistol, but my 380 can take much more pressure than my .357 mag.

 

[DHart]

I understand that Lil Gun is best with heavy-for-caliber bullets, but the 158 is probably a good bullet to push with it. Hodgdon doesn't show any data for pushing a 140 gr. bullet with Lil Gun... is that weight too light to use Lil Gun well?

 

[Clark]

I have not tried the 140 in the 357 mag with LIL'GUN, but I have tried the 130 gr with LIL'GUN in 9mm super. The Hodgdon data shows this load, and the surprising thing, for me, was that when I exceeded the load, the noise and recoil went DOWN!
So I wrote Hodgdon, and they wrote back ~ But of course, the efficiency is going down.~.
The 158 in 357 and 130 in 9mmS are outstanding loads for high velocity with low pressure, but both have the problem of more powder gives less velocity.
140 gr in 357 will probably work well, but who knows until it is tried, but we can certainly expect one can find a good load, with any more powder after that is superflous.

 

[DHart]

Clark... thanks for the info... from your experience does it seem that Lil Gun will burn more completely in a short tube than 2400 or H-110 do? I'm finding a significant amount of unburnt powder all over the counter and floor in my test firing room... copious quantities! The powders are moving my 140 gr. to 1200 from the 3" barrel, so they're doing a fine job of that, but it's all the unburned powder clean-up that bugs me. Plus, there's the waste of powder. I know I'm asking a lot of a powder to move the 140 gr. at 1200 fps from a 3" tube, meter evenly, burn cleanly and completely. 2400 does all of that BUT the burn completely part. Since Lil Gun is just a bit faster burning than 2400, maybe it would be a better choice for use with my 3" launchers.

Any idea on where to start with Lil Gun and a 140 gr. JHP?

Smith & Wesson Model 65-5 .357 Magnum 3" barrel

 

[zeke]

DHart-have had very good results with Lil-gun, but in lever carbine with 170-180 gn jacketed bullets. It is likely you will get considerable amount of not fully burnt powder with most of the slow burners and the mid-range bullet weights from a 3 in tube. For the 357 mag loads in that weight range, have not yet been able to equal the accuracy/velocity combination of factory loaded Win 145 gn silvertips, in pistol or carbine.

The following is just an opinion. The Win 145 gn Silvertip factory load is well worth the money, time saved and pistol wear saved.

Even in the loadings where Lil-gun has worked very well, it is particulary finicky/strange acting towards the top loadings. A hard LFC or Redding profile crimp does help. Am defining hard as adjusting crimp so it produces two stage crimp, roll and flattened (parralel to bullet at leading edge, but not canneluring bullet).

 

[Clark]

I can't remember how clean burning LIL'GUN is, but Zeke says it's not.

I know Blue Dot can be very dirty or very clean, depending on the pressure.

I would start 140 gr with 16 gr of LIL'GUN and work up until the velocity goes down.

Don't be fooled by the extra noise and recoil like I was, use a chrono.

 

[DHart]

I agree on the factory Winchester 145 gr. Silvertip...a great 357 defense load.

I think I'll avoid Lil Gun for the most part... except perhaps with the 158 gr. bullets.

I'm going to try PowerPistol with the 140 gr. JHP bullets to see if I can approximate the Winchester 145 ST load. Then use the Win 145 ST factory load for carry use and practice with my hand loaded versions.

I just chronographed the Win 145gr. Silvertip HP factory load from my GP-100 with 3" barrel.

Ruger GP-100 3" Barrel, Fixed sights, .357 magnum (KGPF-331)

For a "reduced" .357 load, I'd say it's still pretty hot, but comfortable to shoot. With the 3" barrel at a distance of about 12 feet I got:

Lo 1279
Hi 1337
Av 1307
ES 57.53
SD 20.83

There was a dark colored flash which looked dull and dirty. Recoil was quite controllable and comfortable from the 3" GP-100. Not so sure I'd enjoy it as much in a smaller/lighter .357.

I could happily live with a 140 gr XTP travelling at 1200 fps from the 3" tube. That would be a milder than factory loading for .357, but still quite potent. I'll get out the PowerPistol and give it a go.