Texas Knife Laws, As They Relate To Camping

[Classified00]

Howdy all,

I've read the legalese but I need some clarification. From what I read it's illegal to carry a knife with a blade over 5.5 inches. There's an exception for hunting, fishing and other sporting activites (is camping a sporting activity?)

Here's the short of it, I have a fixed blade with a 6.5 inch blade.
* I assume I can I camp with it on private property (assuming that the owner does not object)?
* What about camping in a state park?

In a totally related question ..... I assume I'm also legal to open carry on private property (assuming that the owner does not object)?

Thanks all! I'm obviously planning to get out and enjoy the great outdoors but I want to do it on the right side of the law (as silly as the law may be :banghead.

 

[NavyLCDR]

In a totally related question ..... I assume I'm also legal to open carry on private property (assuming that the owner does not object)?

Your OWN private property - yes. Someone else private property - NO. Not even with their permission.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.46.htm#46.02

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:

(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or

(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

 

[TexasRifleman]

on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control

Always wondered about that. Exactly what dos "under control" mean I wonder?

If I am on 100 acres and there's no one but me, and I have the owners verbal authority to do so, is that property under my control? If not, why not?

 

[nalioth]

NavyLT, TR, If I'm hunting with permission on someone's land, it's "under my control", especially if I've signed a lease, I'd say.

 

[NavyLCDR]

If I am on 100 acres and there's no one but me, and I have the owners verbal authority to do so, is that property under my control? If not, why not?

Nope. Because the owner of that property can withdraw their verbal permission at any time and boot you off the property if they desire. You have no control over it. In addition, you can not legally grant others permission to be there. You've got no say in the matter, really. It's under the control of the owner.

NavyLT, TR, If I'm hunting with permission on someone's land, it's "under my control", especially if I've signed a lease, I'd say.

Now you are talking about two different situations. If you have signed a lease, then the property IS under your control, because the owner of the property has signed a lease with you and they, therefore, have given up the legal right to boot you off the property at any time for any reason. Under a lease, they can only evict you under conditions set forth by statute, which involves justifiable cause, warnings, time limits, etc. No lease = no control. Now we are back to the owner can withdraw permission for you to be there at any time and for any reason.

When I enter Wal Mart, for instance, I am there with the owner's/manager's permission. Does that mean that I am in control of the property that Wal Mart is on? If I didn't have the owner's/manager's permission to be there, and I did not leave when asked, I would be trespassing. But when I am not trespassing, that does NOT mean that I have control of Wal Mart property.

 

[jdh]

NavyLT,

Open the link you posted then scroll down to about 7/8ths of the way down the page. You will find this in Sec. 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY. :
"(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:


(3) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence or motor vehicle, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;"

A knife over 5.5" is commonly used in camping for a variety of task. It is clearly legal for one to possess this tool while engaged in the activity based on this section of the law.

 

[NavyLCDR]

jdh,

You will kindly notice that I answered only one question posed by the OP:
"In a totally related question ..... I assume I'm also legal to open carry on private property (assuming that the owner does not object)?"

I never attempted nor offered any answer to any other of his questions.

TexasRifleman and nalioth were specifically asking if they were under the control property simply because they had permission to be there. Due to the hunting exception, they certainly could carry firearms IF the firearm carried was commonly used in that activity. If it was deer season and they were deer hunting, would a .380 handgun fall under the exception?

The OP's question, though, is whether camping can be considered "other sporting activity". I, personally, have never seen any camping competitions. Well, maybe in boy scouts!

I would venture to say there is a difference between "sporting" activities and "recreation" or "outdoor" activities.

For instance, Washington's exception is:
"(8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;"

Camping is referred to as a recreational activity - not a sporting activity.

 

[Classified00]

That leads to another question. I routinely see employees of ranges and gun shops open carrying. Are they violating the law?

I don't think you wallmart scenario is accurate. If you enter wallmart and an officer of the company, store manager for example, gives you permission to open carry how would that differ from the gun stores I mentioned above.

I also don't follow you about the owner be able to take back their granted permission. If you allow me to borrow your car, then later change your mind, I was still perfectly legal at the time I was driving it.

At any rate, if anyone can speak authoratatively on this I'd appreciate your contribution.

 

[Art Eatman]

An employee is an agent of the owner of a business or of both a business and its premises. Or is an agent of the owner of a business who has leased the premises. This can include a ranch as well as a gunstore.

Such agents can carry anything the boss allows. So can guests or pay-to-hunt people.

I've yet to see anybody fuss about the size of a hunting knife, all the way up through "Rambo is jealous" size. Just don't leave the ranch with it and wear your knife to town, boy, don't wear your knife to town. (Apologies to Johnny Cash.)

I don't know sure for 100% certain that all that is how the law is written, but it's darned sure how the law is enforced in Texas.

As far as state parks, I don't know as I'd bother to wear a knife at all. But campers quite often have butcher knives in the cooking gear which are darned sure more than any 5.5 inches in blade length...

 

[TexasRifleman]

That leads to another question. I routinely see employees of ranges and gun shops open carrying. Are they violating the law?

That's exactly why I asked what 'under control' means. Clearly it can be verbal of some kind if gun store employees can open carry, which happens all the time.

There must be a way to give that 'control' to others on a temporary basis.

 

[nalioth]

I think we got off track with NavyLT's UCW post.

What are the exceptions for hunting, fishing and other sporting activity?

 

[NavyLCDR]

Under the assumption that lawful presence on private property with the owner's verbal permission makes open carry legal in Texas, then if I asked the Wal Mart manager if I could open carry my handgun in the store, would that make it legal for me to do so? What if I just asked the door greeter and they said I could open carry?

 

[Art Eatman]

If you're on a ranch during the regular rifle season for deer hunting, you can open carry any handgun or any size knife which happifies your soul.

Fishing? SFAIK, no game warden gets excited about the length of a knife or about having a fish-billy. Otherwise, the laws apply about the length of the blade and the prohibition against carrying a club.

Just camping? Depends on whether it's private land, state park or national park. Private land, it's between you and the owner. For parks, check their rules.

 

[Dean1818]

being a hunter in Texas, I can attest to open carry while hunting.....

Trust me..... with the way the wild boars in Texas charge AFTER being shot,
a quick draw is needed.

And no one has hassled me yet

 

[TexasRifleman]

Under the assumption that lawful presence on private property with the owner's verbal permission makes open carry legal in Texas, then if I asked the Wal Mart manager if I could open carry my handgun in the store

Clearly more than just permission is required. The law says "under control". But, as mentioned, pretty much every gun store around here has all the employees open carrying so there is some method, whether calling them an "agent" of the owner or otherwise, that would allow for someone to open carry on a 100 acre spot without worrying about the hunting exceptions it would seem.

The trick is to find out what exactly meets the definition of "under control".

 

[NavyLCDR]

and equally important what activities are considered "other sporting activity".

 

[TexasRifleman]

"other sporting activity".

Yep. And I am afraid neither answer is something we will find. Those are the kinds of things a jury gets to decide.

I think I'd rather not know the answer unfortunately. The price of learning is too high.

So we do what we always do, over react and go super paranoid, act like criminals for doing something that is Constitutionally protected. Oh well, we should be used to it I guess.

 

[writerinmo]

Perhaps it might be better to call the local fish and game division to ask rather than put it to a forum where you can and probably will get a lot of advice from people who may or may not know a thing about it... I can't really see a Game Warden letting you off the hook on something just because "People on my forum said it was ok..."

 

[M-Cameron]

if they allow Hunting and fishing......its not a huge leap to assume they'd be alright with camping......

unless you are running around waving a knife like a madman threatening people.... most probably wont even notice its on you......

......and i honestly have a hard time imagining that anyone is going to give you a hard time over it........