Texas Penal Code question

[TexasRifleman]

OK I'm probably nitpicking and paranoid but here's a section from the Texas Penal Code....

PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person com-
mits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly pos-
sesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon
listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution,
any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or
educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transporta-
tion vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or
educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written
regulations or written authorization of the institution;

I was at the mall today for shoes and saw tons of teenagers wearing some band competition t-shirts and saw a stage at one end of the mall.

So I take it from reading this statute that I am in violation if I go to the mall carrying at the same time as this kind of thing? So I'm randomly in violation ANYWHERE if there happens to be some school activity going on?

Your thoughts....?

 

[K3]

Well, it does say intentionally or knowingly. Did you know there was going to be a band student gathering at the mall?

 

[MechAg94]

If it applies at all, I bet it only would apply if you were attending that specific event, not if you were in the Dillard's nearby.

 

[Deavis]

Who sponsored it? If the mall paid to have them there, paid for their expenses in getting them there, or promoted the event to the exclusion of the school then they are the sponsors, not the school. Remember many band t-shirts are for private camps, not school run camps.

 

[SMMAssociates]

We have the same silly law in OH.... I don't think anybody has yet to be arrested for any violation of it. Another "we're supposed to know" thing that a good Judge probably would toss unless you were a "band parent"....

Suppose you're sitting at McD's having lunch and a school bus pulls up. Are you supposed to leave if there's even ONE student on board? 'Course this is Ohio, so common sense may be absent from many such laws....

Regards,

 

[Spreadfire Arms]

from what DPS told me as an instructor, as long as you are not within close proximity to the school event. the example given was a senior prom at a hotel ballroom.

if you were staying at the hotel and saw a high school prom in the ballroom area, just leave the ballroom area. the rest of the hotel premises is okay.

i think that if you weren't near the band competition then you'd be fine. of course that is ultimately up to the arresting officer, as it is probably his discretion as to whether to arrest or not.

 

[TX1911fan]

I think technically you could be arrested, but you'd probably get off, or at least acquited (but that sucks to have a jury trial for something that stupid). I don't think you did it intentionally, knowingly or even recklessly. That law sucks, though. Totally stupid.

 

[revjen45]

Having lived in TX I can say it is a parallel universe, and the laws there are completely bizarre. I was fined $75 for getting hit by a delivery van with its lights off while crossing a dark street. The lawyer I contacted had to look up the law in question. When you need a lawyer to cross the street the legal system is pretty weird at best.

 

[one-shot-one]

i believe

most of the laws on the books such as this one are for piling on.
ie. if you get in a shoot-out at the mall and are arrested then the D.A.
has a laundry list of charges against you not just the shooting so they
can hold/charge you to keep control over you till they have their ducks
in a row for what they ultimatly want to do with you.

 

[springmom]

One-shot-one is correct. The mall is not a school; and the fact that school kids are there does not turn it into one. If, however, you assaulted someone while watching the kids do whatever it was they were there to do, then that is one more charge to add on to your troubles.

It's like the TABC sign outside convenience stores that forbids carrying a concealed weapon onto the premises without a license (because of the alcohol sold there). Well, d'uh....given that it's illegal to carry concealed without a license ANYWHERE off your own property or outside your car, that redundancy can only be a "piling on" kind of law.

Springmom

 

[CleverNickname]

springmom, the TABC sign is just a reminder that unlicensed carry at a business with an alcohol license is a felony, versus just a misdemeanor in most other places.

 

[springmom]

You are right, of course. My point is that the change in status (felony vs. misdemeanor) is itself a "piling on". If you go in and rob the place, and get caught, you will face armed robbery charges AND the charge based on the TABC law AND the misdemeanor charge. OTOH, IANAL and maybe the felony charge would replace the misdemeanor.....

An interesting question. Any Texas lawyers out there want to clarify this?

Springmom

 

[Brad Johnson]

From what I understand, for it to be a "event" as describe in the statute there has to be posted notice if it's held anywhere but an actual school campus. In other words, it has to be clearly evident that it is a school-sponsored event and the 30.06 signs have to be clearly posted at all points of entrance.

Also from what I understand, this is a defense to prosecution, not a defense against being arrested if you try and push your luck.

Keep in mind I am not an attorney and the advice is free.

Brad

 

[oobray]

Your question is one of the mens rea of the crime which TXPC states is purposefully, knowingly or recklessly

You obviously do not fit in to the purposefully or knowingly category, so lets examine recklessly.

Recklessly is defined in TXPC 6.03, which states...

(c) A person acts recklessly, or is reckless, with respect
to circumstances surrounding his conduct or the result of his
conduct when he is aware of but consciously disregards a
substantial and unjustifiable risk that the circumstances exist or
the result will occur. The risk must be of such a nature and degree
that its disregard constitutes a gross deviation from the standard
of care that an ordinary person would exercise under all the
circumstances as viewed from the actor's standpoint.

So, I would say that once you found out that you were on premisis where a school function was occuring, then you would be required to remedy the situation by either storing your firearm somewhere else, or by leaving. But you would have to have a really @#$%head cop, and then an even more @#$%head DA to get prosecuted for that I think.

 

[mec]

There is a wonderful absence of case law on the entire subject. At the instructor certification a couple of years ago, the lawyer of the momemt (they change regularly) said that no CHL license holder had been charged with carrying in forbidden places. If this has changed since, it was not mentioned in the recertification training a couple of months ago.

 

[Greybeard]

Quote: "the lawyer of the momemt (they change regularly) said that no CHL license holder had been charged with carrying in forbidden places. If this has changed since, it was not mentioned in the recertification training a couple of months ago."

Agree with the "they change regularly" part. However, this last time (on Aug. 7), we actually had one that was the same as 2 years prior.

Disagree on the other. One of my students had himself a $4,000 conversation with the wrong cop and got busted for UCW in a church in Grapevine in the late 90's. (No signs, but he'd been given "verbal notice" by the cop a few minutes prior and made the mistake of sticking around waiting on a friend.)

 

[mec]

so it goes, Maybe she meant the other list- general rather than chl license no carry places.
Who knows?

 

[Greybeard]

As an aside, that same lady lawyer has not been including H.B. 378 (Expansion of "Castle Doctrine"/Stand Your Ground" law) in handouts in recent instructor renewal schools in Georgetown. And when confronted about it, declines to discuss.

 

[mbt2001]

 

[kesmed2001]

Texas penal code...

defines "illegal knife" as:

(6) "Illegal knife" means a:
(A) knife with a blade over five and one-half inches;
(B) hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being thrown;
(C) dagger, including but not limited to a dirk, stilletto, and poniard;
(D) bowie knife;
(E) sword; or
(F) spear.

If your knife did not meet those criteria then it is not an illegal knife.