Texas weapons in a bar(51% signed)

[staggerlee213]

I work part time at a music venue in Texas which has a liquor license and is signed with a red 51% sign. I've been leaving my weapon in my car.

I was discussing with the manager tonight the 51% sign and was told it does not apply to them which got me looking into it when I got home.

Could someone please help me understand this correctly:

PC §46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY. (a) Sections 46.02 and 46.03 do
not apply to:

(7) holds an alcoholic beverage permit or license or is an
employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage permit or license if the
person is supervising the operation of the permitted or licensed
premises;​

Pretty sure I understand that the 51% sign does not apply to the holder of the liquor license.

I am not so clear on the 2nd part that says 'or is an employee and is supervising the operation.'

This is taken from http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/InternetForms/Forms/CHL-16.pdf

I've tried searching for more information regarding supervisors, managers, employees etc and 51% signs but can't find much other than general 'you can't carry in a bar and there needs to be a sign' information.

Am I best off leaving the weapon in my car? I'd rather avoid losing the right to carry and a court battle.

 

[nalioth]

It means the management can carry a firearm in a bar/other 51% marked location.

If you're not on the management team (as well as a band member) you are not legal to carry in a 51% location.

 

[staggerlee213]

Who/what determines 'management/supervising' I suppose is my confusion

 

[nalioth]

Who/what determines 'management/supervising' I suppose is my confusion

The person in charge at any given time is "supervising the operation of the permitted or licensed premises"

Seems pretty simple to me.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

It isn't just management, but the employees of the bar (of the license holder) where the sign is posted as well.

Of couse, staggerlee123, you can contact the AG yourself for clarification. You may have gotten that information in your CHL course and if you didn't, then contact TxDPS's attorney.

 

[nalioth]

It isn't just management, but the employees of the bar (of the license holder) where the sign is posted as well.

No sir, this is incorrect. Only the manager or other titled person in charge (headwaiter, chief bartender, senior waitress, whatever the title is for the person in charge) can carry. This law doesn't allow every waiter, waitress, dishwasher, bus boy, or other employee to carry - just the person in charge.

(7) holds an alcoholic beverage permit or license or is an
employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage permit or license if the
person is supervising the operation of the permitted or licensed
premises;

The requirement has been bolded above.

 

[Prince Yamato]

f the
person is supervising the operation of the permitted or licensed
premises

Unless of course there are multiple supervisors. If you were the "live music supervisor". I'm sure you'd qualify.

I should add that this is probably one of those lovely "grey areas" of Texas CCW law. I have a hunch that if anything ever came of it, a court would rule in your favor, providing you boss agreed that you were indeed a "supervisor" but you'd probably have to deal with a legal mess before you were cleared.

 

[nalioth]

Unless of course there are multiple supervisors. If you were the "live music supervisor". I'm sure you'd qualify.

I should add that this is probably one of those lovely "grey areas" of Texas CCW law. I have a hunch that if anything ever came of it, a court would rule in your favor, providing you boss agreed that you were indeed a "supervisor" but you'd probably have to deal with a legal mess before you were cleared.

. . except being in charge of "live music" isn't being in charge of "the licensed premises".

 

[staggerlee213]

There are other grey areas involved.. including the fact the premises is a non-profit, fraternal organization-- the 'employees' are members and not really hired etc etc. I'd have no problem being called a supervisor but is that really all that is needed. Who knows.

 

[pbratton]

Ok, here's what I'd call the bottom line:

If you have the time and the funding, carry away! You can be a test case for the rest of us.

Otherwise, don't carry in a 51% place.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

(7) holds an alcoholic beverage permit or license or is an
employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage permit or license if the
person is supervising the operation of the permitted or licensed
premises;

This looks pretty well cut and dry to me. It is NOT just any supervisor but it is the supervisor for the PREMISES holding the liquor license. I.E. Whoever the main boss of the night. It seems that some are trying to add to that by saying any supervisor. Incorrect. It's no grey area at all. It plainly states If the person is supervising the OPERATION Not various parts of the operation. So unless you are the General manager on duty you cant carry at a 51%.

 

[Countrycowboy]

Ive never really understood why it's called 51% - can somebody explain?

 

[jdh]

The business derives 51% or more of its gross from sales of alcoholic beverages.

 

[macadore]

Slightly off topic, during Fiesta in San Antonio, people put up beer stands on the street and post the 51% signs on their stands. I never figured out how that was supposed to work. How close to the stand can I walk with out breaking the law?

 

[dogtown tom]

macadore Slightly off topic, during Fiesta in San Antonio, people put up beer stands on the street and post the 51% signs on their stands. I never figured out how that was supposed to work. How close to the stand can I walk with out breaking the law?

Seriously?
Just read the handbook you got in your CHL class. It will tell you everything you need to know about firearms law and concealed handguns in Texas. If you don't have it the laws are posted on the DPS website.

 

[jiphillips]

When I worked in bars in Texas, the TABC (like the ATF but for Texas and alcohol only) said that the ONE person in charge could carry. If I was carrying and my boss came in I was required to put my pistol in the car until he left. Even if he wasn't carrying.

Those little stands have the sign because over 51% of their sales come from alcohol so you can't walk into them without a problem, but oddly enough you can order from them in the line without a problem.

 

[CapnMac]

The 51% signs also have effect in other areas, like local smoking bans, and which products can be sold.
Alcoholic Beverage Code is written separate and entire from Business Code and Criminal Code (and all other state Code as well, like Transportation, which mandates use of DLs and SIDs).
Makes for a fun spaghetti-tangle. AB Code says you can only sell to persons with TX-issued ID. Transportation Code says you can read a DL or ID, but not scan the magnetic strip. Business Code says that a sole-proprietor can allow/direct employed to be openly armed while on business premises. But, ABC say only the supervisor/manager. Go figure.
Oh, and all of this tends to follow whatever is locally enforced, too (which can vary across 254 Counties and 800 miles E-W and 600 miles N-S). ABC says no one person can carry more than 32oz in per-serving establishments. Legal to buy any amount, but you need a second person present to carry a pitcher or a third longneck--but, if the local TABC office doe not enforce this, then, it's moot.