That does it, I'm sick of the "MEXICAN GUN VIOLENCE" media blitz

Status
Not open for further replies.
It's hard to argue that US sold firearms are crossing the border in massive numbers.

N3810F: If I understanfd your post correctly, you are saying that the evidence is overwhelming that US sold firearms are crosing the border in massive numbers, and that this is an unarguable FACT. I would suggest it's hard to argue US sold guns ARE crossing the border in massive numbers without much evidence to support that claim.

How many truckloads would it take to convince me?

How many ya got?

"Maybe we should build a wall"....

If any form of contraband is causing a problem for Mexico - perhaps they SHOULD build a wall.
 
Last edited:
man, that was quite an arsenal. Wouldn't mind "disposing" all those stuff so it wouldn't fall back into the hands of the BG's :). Pretty sure the folks at the outdoor range wouldn't mind too.

Anyway i was reading men's journal (don't ask, i got it for free for some reason), and it mentioned Mexico got 2000 guns DAILY from the US. I mean, from what i gather here, they wouldn't even give the serial numbers back to the US to be traced to verify this. This is the ATF agent talking to the reporter.
 
I'm squarely in the 'it ain't true until ya prove it' crowd. Why would we ever accept such assertations without demanding proof?
 
Here's a VIDEO of the/an ATF's Deputy Assistant Director Office of Field Operations Bill McMahon on the tv show On the Record (Fox News Channel). Greta Van Sustren asks him about whether guns from the US are illegally streaming across to Mexico. It's a vague answer.

*There's an ad before the actual interview comes up.

"Battle at the Border". ATF on Firearms Battle in Mexico.

VIDEO From On the Record Interview with ATF Representative
 
Last edited:
In this corner of the world (southeast Arizona) guns have been going across the border into Mexico since, and before the Earps were here in the 1880's. Mexico doesn't have a domestic gun industry to any degree (wonder why? :rolleyes:) so for all practical purpose any firearms that are down there are imported - one way or another.

The real issue is; are U.S. gun retailers and gun shows along the border selling guns to illegal gunrunners in huge quantities? With a very few exceptions, the answer is "no."

In spite of other claims to the contrary, there are not a whole lot of gun shops or gun shows along the U.S./Mexican border because most of the land between East Texas and West California is uninhabited desert. Those that are get checked by the ATF, and sometimes frequently. I cannot say how many serial numbers are turned over to the ATF, but those that are, are traced. Obviously true military weapons are not coming from here.

Without question, what the mass media is reporting is pure... you know what. They are doing it because they have an agenda, and most of us know what it is.
 
Firearms ARE flowing into Mexico via the US.
Foreign Military Assistance Program has provided Military grade firearms and ammunition, including 40mm launchers, 40mm launcher grenades and anti=personnel hand grenades for years.
This material is in turn sold to drug gangs by unscrupulous and corrupt Military and Police personnel in Mexico.
The guns aren't coming from Joe's border gun shop, they are coming from our own government supported programs.

There is a percentage of American sporting firearms also going into Mexico but these aren't the real problem.
Yes sporting semi-uto AKM type firearms have made their way into Mexico but the majority of AK/AKM type firearms as well as explosives and other materials that are recovered are actually coming up from Central and South America and the US State Department as well as Mexican authorities damn well know this.
If you can smuggle dope you can smuggle guns and most times one shipment comes with the other.
You can buy AKM assault rifles, full auto and new, from Venezuela for about $400US
Used AKM assault rifles can be bought from Columbian sources for about $250-$300US
New Sporting semi auto AK type rifles are sold in the US for a minimum of $650US
Do the math.
The US State Department damn well knows this.

FN 5.7mm handguns are a popular handgun simply because it is tricky and drug dealers appreciate cool factor firearms as well as the next guy.
Hi-Point firearms are brought into Mexico by younger gangbanger types who cross the border on a regular basis.
Shotguns come in the same way and are appreciated by those that continue to hunt regardless of the Mexican authorities view on civilian firearm ownership.

The problem isn't guns, it is the out and out corruption of the Mexican government that benefits as much from the drug trade as the drug gangs do.
The profits are many times greater than the tourist trade that Mexico appears to be more than willing to give up on.

Oh, the State department damn well knows this too.
 
Greta Van Sustren asks him about whether guns from the US are illegally streaming across to Mexico. It's a vague answer.

I just noticed a subtlety in that video. When the ATF guy said that lots of the guns were "traced" to states such as Conneticut, Illinois, Washington State, etc. he was clearly trying to plant the idea that these were coming from illegal transactions in those states. Why else would he have made that statement? Then I thought....hmmm.....aren't recievers for AR's manufactured in those states? Colt (West Hartford CT), Rock River (Colona IL), and I'm pretty sure a couple lower receiver manufacturers in Washington State, etc.? Of course "guns" confiscated in Mexico could be "traced" to those US states. That's where they're made!!! He never once stated what criteria was applied to his term "traced".
A white lie is still a lie.
Your thoughts?
 
I'd be willing to bet quite a few weapons do come from the U.S., from our government to Mexico's to their police then to the cartels.
 
N3810F:
It's hard to argue that US sold firearms are crossing the border in massive numbers. How many shipments do they need to intercept before you'll admit there is a problem?
Until you can show how many shipments have been intercepted, I'd say it's pretty much impossible to argue that U.S. firearms are being sold across the border in massive numbers. Massive numbers indeed? Just where did you acquire that particular impression?

Seems a bit strange economically that high priced US firearms would be so attractive anyway.

The answer has nothing to do with guns though, as this is a drug problem. The recreational drug user in the US has blood on their hands with this one.
:rolleyes:

Well of course. Everything wrong everywhere is the fault of somebody in the U.S.

Just ask Hillary or others of her breed.

We should all be so ashamed.

:cool:
 
The media often does these things essentialy demanding legislation.
If you tell people something enough from enough sources they start to feel it is a major concern even if what you tell them is not true.
The Iraq war was rather interesting in that respect. Enough people were sure of the "weapons of mass destruction" because multiple sources gave proof. Years later it turned out the source for most of it was a single guy gaining US protection and citizenship saying most it it. The white house was repeating it and the press was repeating it and it appeared that information was coming from multiple sources.
It appeared the information was being corroborated from multiple sources, but in reality was all from a single original source.

People are naive. If multiple news agency, ATF talking heads, and politicians like Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, and Eric Holder are saying the same thing in media the people are given the impression something must be done. They are then not surprised when legislation is passed reducing thier rights to fix the problem.

The same thing was done before the first assault weapon ban. Lots of media attention on those type of weapons even though they were rarely used by the criminals they were portrayed with. While most of the gang members of the early 90s were using handguns for most things the media managed to create a panic about assault weapons, even though long arms of any type accounted for a small minority of crimes or murders.


Manipulating the herd.



Yes there is without a doubt guns in Mexico from the US. There is only a few thousand firearm permits required by law to own a gun in the nation of over 100 million people. Laws limit people to firearms that will not protect them from both the cartels, criminals or thier own corrupt government.
A significant portion of the cartel fights involve individuals in body armor and uniforms. Often LEO or military uniforms, but sometimes even thier own uniforms with the initials of thier own cartel. They look like professional uniforms worn by some paramilitary team.

So yes there is citizens who fear for thier safety and want to protect themselves with firearms in Mexico and will obtain guns for that purpose. So thier is an illegal market for such guns.

The cartels however have so many sources and contacts for weapons they are not limited. They can aquire guns from South America, the Mexican government, and even overseas.
People making hundreds of million dollar submarines in the middle of the rainforest that can travel thousands of miles are not going to have any trouble aquiring small arms.
They can purchase them and they could even make a batch of tens of thousands for less than the cost of making some of thier submarines.
They are working with billions of dollars.

The corrupt government of Mexico is very oppressive. They set up checkpoints and roadblocks with the military. They travel extremely well armed. They do not want thier citizens with arms that can be used to resist thier oppression. Many in the government and military also have ties to the cartels.
The infamous Los Zetas are in fact founded by those trained by the US to fight cartels who simply switched sides. The money is better on the cartel side.
They have set up camps identical to those the US trained them with (which have been located several times) and train new recruits.


So while restrictions on weapons will not limit the cartels ability to aquire what they need, they could accomplish goals of both the US and Mexican governments. Limiting thier civilian populations ability to aquire and own weapons capable of posing effective resistance.
The US wants to remove the ability of citizens to obtain weapons not registered, especialy capable weapons that can be sold FTF. The Mexican government several steps ahead wants to remove the ability of thier citizens to aquire the weapons at all. That way only the cartels and the corrupt government will be well armed.
 
Mexico figures greatly into domestic policy. Immigration reform is slated for this year or early next year.
 
And with that, I think we've said all that there is to say that's gun-related. Good discussion, y'all. :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top