The $1,000 AR15

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This sort of stuff shows what good marketing can get you. I really don't have anything against the Smiths. They are running strong against the likes of Rock River and Stag, but many somehow think that they got a $1K rifle for a really good price. The fact is that the Smith is a low cost alternative to more expensive rifles and Smith can offer it because corners were cut.

Although I'll agree that melonite is a heck of a treatment, it doesn't make up for the fact that inferior steel in used in the barrel. 4140, I believe it is. The little 5r plug is also a bunch of bull. There's nothing special about 5r rifling that makes it any more inherently accurate than any other form of rifling.

One thing to consider if you're looking at the Smith Sport is that I believe that the Sport model has an integral trigger guard. If this is true, this alone would turn me to something else. It sure would suck to bend it and not be able to replace it.



This is also wrong. I'd call a Bushmaster, Rock River or Stag, just another AR, but the Colts are definitely a step above most. I'm not going to rehash the materials used in manufacturing, but Colts are superior. If an all out revolution ever took place and I had to trust my life to a weapon that worked and had to keep on working, I'd definitely go for something that was a step above the rest.

Of course, most of this is just academic. Most people that buy ARs will never put more than a couple thousand rounds through them in a year's time (if that much), so they will likely never see the benefits of getting an upper tier rifle.
Next time you're in Mighty MO, I'll have to shoot with you. I'll show you marketing.

You're also incorrect on the difference in inherant accuracy of 5r. I can attest to the difference in chrome lined 6 land vs 5r. It's minis clue to be sure, but exists nonethelessless.

You fellas and your $1000 guns.
 
I also own a S&W M&P 15 Sport and the 5R rifling does make a difference. It's very accurate with factory ammo and should be exceptional with handloads. I'm getting 3 shot groups at less than 3/4" at 100 yards with PMC 223 55gr and Fed M193 55gr loads. And I have gotten a few 1/2" 3 shot groups when I do my best. Several of the other AR shooters at the range were not only amazed but a lot put out that their super duper $1200 - $1800 ARs couldn't do that with factory ammo.:D
 
I also own a S&W M&P 15 Sport and the 5R rifling does make a difference. It's very accurate with factory ammo and should be exceptional with handloads. I'm getting 3 shot groups at less than 3/4" at 100 yards with PMC 223 55gr and Fed M193 55gr loads. And I have gotten a few 1/2" 3 shot groups when I do my best. Several of the other AR shooters at the range were not only amazed but a lot put out that their super duper $1200 - $1800 ARs couldn't do that with factory ammo.:D
Wouldn't have posted this info. Flame bait.
 
Best $1,000 AR, +/- $100?

A Colt, BCM, Daniel Defense or Noveske.

You can get a new Colt LE6920 for that. In stock. Right now.

Example:

http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/CO6920.aspx

http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/COLE6920MP-B.aspx



I realize the OP hasn't responded, well, at all. But this is probably a pretty common question people are going to have. Might as get some good answers. :)


BTW: I personally wouldn't measure the 'quality' of an AR by what kind of bench rest groups I could get. But then I wouldn't buy an AR to use as a bench rest target gun, there are much better choices in firearms if that is what you want to do.
 
Best $1,000 AR, +/- $100?

A Colt, BCM, Daniel Defense or Noveske.

You can get a new Colt LE6920 for that. In stock. Right now.

Example:

http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/CO6920.aspx

http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/COLE6920MP-B.aspx



I realize the OP hasn't responded, well, at all. But this is probably a pretty common question people are going to have. Might as get some good answers. :)


BTW: I personally wouldn't measure the 'quality' of an AR by what kind of bench rest groups I could get. But then I wouldn't buy an AR to use as a bench rest target gun, there are much better choices in firearms if that is what you want to do.
Who said bench rest? I got better groups PERIOD!
 
Well, I wasn't speaking to or about you directly.

I think something is out of whack when the OP asks for the best $1k AR, and says: "I'm talking accuracy, reliability, durability, and overall bulid quality/fit and finish. This will be a do it all AR which entails HD and plinking up to 200 yards. "

And you get responses for a S&W based on their sub-MOA 3 shot "groups" which, although it was not stated, I will bet are shot from the bench.
 
Well, I wasn't speaking to or about you directly.

I think something is out of whack when the OP asks for the best $1k AR, and says: "I'm talking accuracy, reliability, durability, and overall bulid quality/fit and finish. This will be a do it all AR which entails HD and plinking up to 200 yards. "

And you get responses for a S&W based on their sub-MOA 3 shot "groups" which, although it was not stated, I will bet are shot from the bench.
I meant in general. Put a Sport, their lowest grade rifle, against the 6920. Winner buys lunch, and I'm hungry.

Know you weren't talking to daddy Mustard:)
 
I meant in general. Put a Sport, their lowest grade rifle, against the 6920. Winner buys lunch, and I'm hungry.

Know you weren't talking to daddy Mustard:)

Will this hypothetical contest be in line with the intended uses posed by the OP?

How do you intend to measure which one is better for home defense?

If your primary goal is to shoot little 3 shot groups that impress the other dudes at the range, you will probably feel like you spent too much money on a Colt AR. I won't argue that. There are more cost effective options if that is your goal.
 
Agree with gennro, go for S&W, walmart has colt on sale for just over $1k.
 
Will this hypothetical contest be in line with the intended uses posed by the OP?

How do you intend to measure which one is better for home defense?

If your primary goal is to shoot little 3 shot groups that impress the other dudes at the range, you will probably feel like you spent too much money on a Colt AR. I won't argue that. There are more cost effective options if that is your goal.
I measure the effectiveness of my arms by the standards I set. Sadly, based on the OPs standards (he who remains unaccounted for btw) there are many AR rifles that fit this bill.
If I can shoot a good group resting, great. If I shoot a good group standing, great. Means I'm using the weapon correctly, and the rifle responds well to that. I cannot speak of BCM or Noveske, but the Smith impressed me much more than the Colt. Take it for what it's worth, my opinion, I mean. I know YOU like Colt, and that's fine. I just call a spade a spade.
 
I measure the effectiveness of my arms by the standards I set. Sadly, based on the OPs standards (he who remains unaccounted for btw) there are many AR rifles that fit this bill.
If I can shoot a good group resting, great. If I shoot a good group standing, great. Means I'm using the weapon correctly, and the rifle responds well to that. I cannot speak of BCM or Noveske, but the Smith impressed me much more than the Colt. Take it for what it's worth, my opinion, I mean. I know YOU like Colt, and that's fine. I just call a spade a spade.

Is a 3 shot group at 100 yards (or 50, or 200, or whatever) how you measure the effectiveness of your HD weapon?
 
And BTW, the list of ARs that fit the OP's criteria probably isn't all that long. He wants quality, fit and finish, reliability and durability to go along with the accuracy component some people seem stuck on. And he wants something that is 'tried and true'.

That rules some out, for sure.
 
And BTW, the list of ARs that fit the OP's criteria probably isn't all that long. He wants quality, fit and finish, reliability and durability to go along with the accuracy component some people seem stuck on. And he wants something that is 'tried and true'.

That rules some out, for sure.
Which would be?
 
Which would be?

If you want something tried and true, durable, reliable, good fit and finish, for an AR that you may be staking your life on (HD, SD, etc), I believe, as you know, that you don't want an inexpensive rifle that cuts corners in the manufacturing process to save money. That leaves you with 4-5 current manufacturers that are at the top of the game and generally available.

Now, if the 'plinking at 200 yards' use was the main or only use, and the other uses were in line with that, or there was a tight budget with no room to move up, things would be different. But that is not the case.

If you are looking for a +/- $1,000 AR and want a tried and true, reliable, durable gun that you can count on for defensive use a Colt/DD/BCM/etc is going to be a better choice than an RRA, S&W, etc.

BUT more to the point I was speaking towards, measuring 3 shot groups off the bench at the range is not the proper way to measure which rifle fits the bill
 
If you want something tried and true, durable, reliable, good fit and finish, for an AR that you may be staking your life on (HD, SD, etc), I believe, as you know, that you don't want an inexpensive rifle that cuts corners in the manufacturing process to save money. That leaves you with 4-5 current manufacturers that are at the top of the game and generally available.

Now, if the 'plinking at 200 yards' use was the main or only use, and the other uses were in line with that, or there was a tight budget with no room to move up, things would be different. But that is not the case.

If you are looking for a +/- $1,000 AR and want a tried and true, reliable, durable gun that you can count on for defensive use a Colt/DD/BCM/etc is going to be a better choice than an RRA, S&W, etc.

BUT more to the point I was speaking towards, measuring 3 shot groups off the bench at the range is not the proper way to measure which rifle fits the bill
Well, to me, an Arsenal SGL is better than all of them, but since we are talking ARs...you may have me there. However, I don't feel undergunned with something I can hit with. Where has a DD been
"tried or trued"?

Also, why the hell would I use an AR for self defense or for home defense? Not really a bright choice. There's better suited weapons for that purpose.
 
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Well, to me, an Arsenal SGL is better than all of them, but since we are talking ARs...you may have me there. However, I don't feel undergunned with something I can hit with. Where has a DD been
"tried or trued"?

Also, why the hell would I use an AR for self defense or for home defense? Not really a bright choice. There's better suited weapons for that purpose.

Well, the OP is asking about an AR and stated that HD would be one of it's uses. If you don't think an AR even belongs in the toolbox for home defense, why are talking about which AR the OP should get when one of the uses includes home defense?

As for the theory behind that question...

There are pros/cons to each weapon type for HD, same as any other use or choice. Before even going down that road we would have to know what other firearms the OP had or intends to acquire, where he lives, what his training/experience/knowledge on the subject is, who else lives with him, who else might use the weapon, etc.

For ME, an AR can be considered for home defense because it is light, maneuverable, has a high capacity, good effectiveness, low recoil/fast follow up shots, transitions quickly between targets, can defeat soft armor, etc. It could also transition very nicely into a use outside of the building. Limitations include price and muzzle flash/blast.

Handgun advantages include the ability to use with one hand and the ability to keep/store them in more locations. Limitations include lower effectiveness and a greater skill requirement to implement effectively.

A shotgun's advantages would be price, reliability (basic pump), and effectiveness in stopping the attacker once struck. Limitations might be recoil and weight as well as ammunition capacity.

Note that when comparing common defensive ammunition the pistol is actually the one that is likely to penetrate the most interior walls and that anything capable of reliably stopping an attacker is going to penetrate interior walls.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/
 
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Educate me, why is Winham the best buy @ $800? I am not familiar with the brand. I know that the Sport is a very good rifle for less and the 6920 right @ $1k is a rock and their are several excellent options for a bit more-DD, BCM...Just don't know what they bring to the table.
 
Educate me, why is Winham the best buy @ $800? I am not familiar with the brand. I know that the Sport is a very good rifle for less and the 6920 right @ $1k is a rock and their are several excellent options for a bit more-DD, BCM...Just don't know what they bring to the table.

This post of yours is the only one in the thread with the word "Winham" in it. Well, and now this one, lol.

What did I miss?

I am not familiar with their products so if a particular model was listed I probably didn't even notice...
 
Palmetto state armory would be my vote or a Colt. My PSA AR-15 is superb, quality & accurate. It only set me back 750 OTD about 8 months ago.
 
Palmetto state armory would be my vote or a Colt. My PSA AR-15 is superb, quality & accurate. It only set me back 750 OTD about 8 months ago.

You might be on to something there, but IMO and based on everything I have read and seen PSA doesn't meet the "tried and true" requirement yet.

They might later, but not at the moment. Still too much unknown.

If I were looking for an AR on a ~$750 budget, it would probably be a PSA.
 
Well, the OP is asking about an AR and stated that HD would be one of it's uses. If you don't think an AR even belongs in the toolbox for home defense, why are talking about which AR the OP should get when one of the uses includes home defense?

As for the theory behind that question...

There are pros/cons to each weapon type for HD, same as any other use or choice. Before even going down that road we would have to know what other firearms the OP had or intends to acquire, where he lives, what his training/experience/knowledge on the subject is, who else lives with him, who else might use the weapon, etc.

For ME, an AR can be considered for home defense because it is light, maneuverable, has a high capacity, good effectiveness, low recoil/fast follow up shots, transitions quickly between targets, can defeat soft armor, etc. It could also transition very nicely into a use outside of the building. Limitations include price and muzzle flash/blast.

Handgun advantages include the ability to use with one hand and the ability to keep/store them in more locations. Limitations include lower effectiveness and a greater skill requirement to implement effectively.

A shotgun's advantages would be price, reliability (basic pump), and effectiveness in stopping the attacker once struck. Limitations might be recoil and weight as well as ammunition capacity.

Note that when comparing common defensive ammunition the pistol is actually the one that is likely to penetrate the most interior walls and that anything capable of reliably stopping an attacker is going to penetrate interior walls.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/
Good question. Glad you scrutinize EVERYTHING. Either that, or my first guess is you love to type.

I gave my opinion. Colt wasn't it, which obviously riled you. Get over the fact not everyone shares your opinion. You'll do well to remember that.
 
This post of yours is the only one in the thread with the word "Winham" in it. Well, and now this one, lol.

What did I miss?

I am not familiar with their products so if a particular model was listed I probably didn't even notice...
LOL, a couple guys earlier in the thread recommended Windham Weaponry, was curious of their buzz.
 
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