The 1911 guide rod conundrum

[DaisyCutter]

Does anyone know of a before/after test comparing full length guide rods to the standard GI in the same handgun? A video or link perhaps?

I have a Springfield with a 2-piece guide rod. It performs flawlessly as is. I didn't like the idea of using a tool for disassembly, but I like every other feature, especially the ambi safety for a lefty like me. I blue locktited the 2-piece guide rod. I can't courses it giving me a problem, but the possibility nags at me. I am able to qualify and carry a 1911 for work, and may consider using this handgun if it continues to prove itself.

Most everyone agrees it's not worthwhile to "upgrade" to the full length guide rod, but what about spending $25 to "downgrade" to a GI?

I searched valiantly, but can't find a video or test where someone actually tried different set-ups in Ihe same handgun, shooting from a rest, where the guide rod was the only variable. Has anyone seen such a thing?

 

[ljnowell]

I'm a fan of the GI guiderod. Never saw the point in anything else.

 

[malakili]

I downgraded to a GI guide rod in my Springfield loaded and never looked back. No perceptible difference in performance, just easier takedown. Go with what's proven.

 

[AZAndy]

I did just that on a Citadel lately. I like being able to take it apart with just my hands.

 

[csa77]

FLGR adds weight , that's a good thing. You can buy them made from tungsten cobalt so they are extra heavy

 

[entropy]

I've shot and owned both; never noticed any big difference either way-shooting or disassembly. I suppose the extra weight up front does help reduce muzzle flip.

 

[cfullgraf]

I kind of like the full length guide rod.

But, I really do not think it makes my M1911s more accurate or help me shoot them better.

The last M1911 that I purchased still has the factory spring retaining system in it with no plans to replace it.

 

[Drail]

Back in the 90s I sold and installed boxes of FLGRs in customer's guns. We could not keep them in stock. Every guy had to have one. All of mine have short G.I. rods. The FLGR does nothing useful for your gun or your shooting. The idea of making it in two pieces with threads that can loosen was just stupid. If you want to add some weight to hold your muzzle down a bull barrel works MUCH better than any guide rod. Think of it like the rear wing spoilers that kids bolt on to their front wheel drive Honda civic. It just looks SO KEWL......

 

[lpsharp88]

I had a Springfield GI model with the normal plug, and have a TRP now that has the 2 piece full length. No real difference between the two in terms of function/reliability really. If you're ok with the two piece, don't bother spending the money to "downgrade" to the GI style

 

[Robert101]

I have 1911's in both configurations. I can't tell any difference b/n full length and the original short guide rod. I don't spend the money to alter them either. Take down is not a problem either way for me. As to the additional weight of a FLGR, I think that is baloney. How could 1/2 inch long of that small in material affect the gun's performance. I think it is in the shooters head.

 

[200Apples]

.
The original Model of 1911 in Army trials survived over 6000 rounds discharged without a misfire, with only the occasional dunking into a bucket of water to cool the gun when it became too hot to hold. It did not have a FLGR.

I would imagine a full-length guide rod would only enhance the dynamic action and longevity of the recoil spring itself.

Here are some search results on the topic, none of which I have yet read:

Benefits of a full-length guide rod

 

[RA40]

A bit of an aside, I've liked the cycling with the flatwire recoil spring on the short guide rod.

 

[mgmorden]

On any "regular" bushing barrel 1911 I always use the original guide rod. On bull barrels with a reverse cut plug you kind of have to use a FLGR and for those I like the Dawson tool-less rod, but I've got guns with that type and the regular "paperclip needed" type and both work just fine.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

My one and only 1911 has a FLGR in it. It shoots fine, and I see no need to fiddle with it.

 

[DaisyCutter]

This is why I so desperately want to see some quantitative testing.

My FLGR ain't broke, so does it make sense to change it?

Yeah, it's not the original way. Given 100+ year old tooling, incorporating a FLGR at the beginning would have added significant cost across several hundred thousand gov contract pistols, and complicated a relatively grunt-proof design.

Conversely, my Jeep has a 285hp V6, a 6-speed manual and 4-wheel disk brakes. It's a lot more refined than the original.

Someone please, if you have a ransom rest and a 1911, try swapping guide rods. Especially if you have a reloading bench, and can load up min power loads for part of the test. If not, I'll have to get a rest.

FWIW, I removed the end of my 2-piece guide rod, and hand cycled the handgun empty. It's more smooth with the whole guide rod. Note, the back half of the 2-piece guide rod does not have the generously rounded profile of the GI rod.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Here's a link to one series of tests of FLGR vs. standard, done with a range of guns of varying quality. Done with sensitive electronic gear, Ransom Rest, and guys who seem to know what they're doing.

It says there's not enough difference to matter.

http://www.frfrogspad.com/miscelln.htm#guide%20rods

 

[DaisyCutter]

Thank you. I'm going to "downgrade" to GI spec.

 

[WC145]

I've got a bunch of 1911s, a few have GI guide rods but most have Wilson FLGRs. I've found that my guns cycle smoother with FLGRs and Wilson's version is a one piece rod designed so that you can still field strip the gun without tools, same as a GI style, as long as your bushing isn't overly tight.

 

[Drail]

A bull barrel does not require the use of a FLGR. I run G.I. rods in my bull barreled guns. Here's the deal - with a G.I. rod the recoil spring rubs on the outside of the spring and the inside of the slide when the slide cycles over it i- you can see the wear on it. With a FLGR the recoil spring rubs on the inside of the spring and usually does not touch the inside of the slide.. The two setups sound and feel different. As my houseboy used to say - "same same G.I.". Browning's rod is good enough. The guide rod used has no effect on accuracy. I have run both setups in a Ransom Rest and could see no difference. Accuracy is simply repeatable lockup every time the barrel goes into battery. That's all in the lugs and bushing and muzzle fit regardless of whether it is a bushing or bull barrel. If the barrel locks up the same way every time the gun will be accurate.

 

[mesinge2]

I downgraded to a GI guide rod in my Springfield loaded and never looked back. No perceptible difference in performance, just easier takedown. Go with what's proven.

Agreed

 

[Jim Watson]

My FLG (Friendly Local Gunsmith) likes FLGRs, so that is what I have on my "range guns" for IDPA and such. My Commander and Ultra Compact have the stock guides.

 

[Hangingrock]

Fifty-Two years ago this August I fired a 1911A1 at Parris Island for familiarization. Later I would be issued a Ithaca 1911A1 for my 13 month and 15 day long tour. No war stories. Just putting into perspective my experience with 1911 series pistol.

I've witnessed a series of so called improvements for the 1911 series pistol. Of all the improvements two had merit for me, improved sights and the ambidextrous safety.

The FLGR in my opinion is a gimmick yet others see it as virtue/improvement.

Each to their own!

 

[SHOOT1SAM]

DaisyCutter:

...what about spending $25 to "downgrade" to a GI? /QUOTE]

With all due respect, you could've spent the $25 & had your own real-time answer in about the same time it took to receive your replies, and then would've been able to answer the question for any future newbies.

Sam

 

[kBob]

Well some one has to say it (did I miss it?)

John Moses Browning didn't think it needed no FLGR.

I feel better, now.


-kBob

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Well some one has to say it (did I miss it?)

John Moses Browning didn't think it needed no FLGR.

I feel better, now.

I agree that a FLGR is probably unnecessary -- but that's based on personal experience and the test results I cited earlier.

Some of what JMB did in many of his design was stipulated by the people who commissioned the design, and all of the features present in any given JMB design aren't always there because JMB thought that was the best or only way to do things.

Example: JMB didn't think the 1911 design needed no thumb safety, but the U.S. Army did; I don't think that means we should do away with the thumb safety just because JMB didn't include it in his original design! (I kind of like the thumb safety!)

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