The .260 Remington
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mgmorden
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They're close enough to be splitting hairs. If I already had a .260 I wouldn't feel bad but if I were buying a new rifle the 6.5 Creed is the obvious choice for better ammo availability (current and future). Of course if you reload and don't mind forming from .308 brass (which will always be around) then it's really a moot decision.
Newtosavage
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I see no advantage of a .260 Rem over a 6.5 CM, and the availability of factory ammo will continue to put the 6.5 CM ahead for years to come.
The .260 Rem, like the 6.5x55, is effectively dead IMO except in the hands of reloaders who already have one. That said, the 6.5x55 has a cool factor that will always keep it alive. I have no idea what will keep the .260 alive.
The .260 Rem, like the 6.5x55, is effectively dead IMO except in the hands of reloaders who already have one. That said, the 6.5x55 has a cool factor that will always keep it alive. I have no idea what will keep the .260 alive.
Interestingly, the Dutch military wants a small batch of precision rifles chambered in .260 Remington (for some unknown reason):
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog...-looking-for-a-designated-marksman-rifle-dmr/
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog...-looking-for-a-designated-marksman-rifle-dmr/
mcb
Member
Just like the recent 243 Win vs 6mm CM thread. The 6.5 CM has a faster twist and more room to shoot the heavier and longer VLD bullet that most 260 Remington rifles can't. That said 260 Remington has more case volume and if you're not trying to shoot the heavy VLD bullets 260 Remington can shoot the moderate weight bullet a bit faster than 6.5 CM.
Oh and Remington probably failed to support/market the cartridge as usual...
Oh and Remington probably failed to support/market the cartridge as usual...
It's both a failure to market it, and the fact it had inferior design and standards for long range shooting. Remington put out 9-twist 700s and the 140-grain Core Lokt. It doesn't catch on except among rifle loonies. The 7-08 is close enough and already firmly established. Then, as long range shooting picks up in popularity, Hornady is putting out 6.5 Creedmoor loaded with 140 gr AMAX, and Ruger suddenly makes a cool new rifle for the "new" Hornady 6.5, everyone oohs and ahs, takes a closer look at the Creedmoor, at this point it's all over for the 260.
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earlthegoat2
Member
Well if the 260 had come out when longer range shooting was popular with the masses and designed it as such, the 6.5 Creed would never have been born.
It wasn’t. It was just another .308 based 6.5 cal hunting round and rifle. Remington has never really primarily catered to recreational shooters. Mainly just hunters. Jumping into the handgun game lately serves as evidence of that. When they got into the AR game they immediately offered them in only camo options and marketed them as varmint rifles and chambered them in rounds like 204 Ruger as well as 223. (The Remington branded R-15s that is, not their Bushmaster branded items). Not a bad idea but they were pigeon holding themselves into hunting only.
That is fine but it leaves territory for other makers to exploit where there is an opening in a market. I didn’t see Remington coming out with new .260 rifles with a proper twist and throat for high BC bullets to compete with the 6.5 Creed. Why would they? They have a popular action and by the time the Creed took over it was too late for any innovation to the 260 so they just chambered their own rifles in the new cartridge which was open source anyway.
Many if Remingtons decisions can be looked back upon and be seen as nails in their coffin even if they didn’t seem so at the time. It is hard not to be hard on Remington and just say good riddance but maybe back then they were just a product of their time just like they are now.
It wasn’t. It was just another .308 based 6.5 cal hunting round and rifle. Remington has never really primarily catered to recreational shooters. Mainly just hunters. Jumping into the handgun game lately serves as evidence of that. When they got into the AR game they immediately offered them in only camo options and marketed them as varmint rifles and chambered them in rounds like 204 Ruger as well as 223. (The Remington branded R-15s that is, not their Bushmaster branded items). Not a bad idea but they were pigeon holding themselves into hunting only.
That is fine but it leaves territory for other makers to exploit where there is an opening in a market. I didn’t see Remington coming out with new .260 rifles with a proper twist and throat for high BC bullets to compete with the 6.5 Creed. Why would they? They have a popular action and by the time the Creed took over it was too late for any innovation to the 260 so they just chambered their own rifles in the new cartridge which was open source anyway.
Many if Remingtons decisions can be looked back upon and be seen as nails in their coffin even if they didn’t seem so at the time. It is hard not to be hard on Remington and just say good riddance but maybe back then they were just a product of their time just like they are now.
David Hoback
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LOL! This again.
The 6.5CM wins on off the shelf ammo. However, just do a search online of 260. There is more factory loads than you might think. Accuracy between the two is moot. More to do of the rig, worked up reloads(if you think you factory ammo 6.5cm is super accurate, you are living in La-La land!), and of course shooter.
Now, that out of the way... Reloaders will always choose the 260. I form my own brass and I ONLY reload for my custom bench rest rifle in 260. It will ALWAYS hold a velocity edge on the CM, regardless of what fanboys with their Federal & Hornady factory ammo believe.
But I will admit, I enjoy reloading. I build my own firearms(including my bench rifle), and I truly enjoy every facet of the enthusiasm. If you simply want to dump ammo at a target, go with the 6.5cm.
The 6.5CM wins on off the shelf ammo. However, just do a search online of 260. There is more factory loads than you might think. Accuracy between the two is moot. More to do of the rig, worked up reloads(if you think you factory ammo 6.5cm is super accurate, you are living in La-La land!), and of course shooter. Now, that out of the way... Reloaders will always choose the 260. I form my own brass and I ONLY reload for my custom bench rest rifle in 260. It will ALWAYS hold a velocity edge on the CM, regardless of what fanboys with their Federal & Hornady factory ammo believe.
But I will admit, I enjoy reloading. I build my own firearms(including my bench rifle), and I truly enjoy every facet of the enthusiasm. If you simply want to dump ammo at a target, go with the 6.5cm.
Captcurt
Member
I could live with a CM, Swede, or a 260 in a hunting rifle. The ballistics are nearly identical. The only time a CM has any advantage is when you go long, say 500+ yards. Then the longer bullets in the CM gets the nod. I have owned all three rounds and really can't tell any difference in a game rifle.
JFrank
Member
A 260 Akley improved with a fast twist barrel might get the nod in my pea sized brain.
I have buddies with straight 260 Remington’s that claim tuning is a challenge.
I have buddies with straight 260 Remington’s that claim tuning is a challenge.
The 260 has never popular and for years was right on the verge of being dropped. It was designed around 120 gr bullets for deer hunting. The long range shooters started experimenting with it and discovered that if loaded with 140-150 gr high BC bullets it made an excellent long range target round.
The problem is that those bullet weights wouldn't work in factory 260 rifles. The bullets were too long to fit the magazine or chamber and the barrels were twisted for much shorter hunting bullets and wouldn't shoot the longer target bullets accurately.
For years custom 260 rifles with modified magazines and special barrels on them were used in long range competition. Some of the long range shooters approached Hornady and asked them to develop a new factory cartridge that would duplicate the ballistics they were getting with their custom 260 rifles and out of spec handloads. The 6.5 CM is the result.
Hunters never fully accepted the concept of a 26 caliber 120 gr bullet for big game which is why the 260 never caught on. But moving up to a 140-150 gr bullet caught their attention. A few tried it and found it worked great on game as large as elk. Word spread and it is now a pretty common hunting round. I saw some sales figures for 2018 and nearly 1/2 of all new bolt action rifle sales were in 6.5 CM. I see it as a great balance between an acceptable hunting round and a great target round for the guy who wants to use one rifle for both.
If someone just enjoys tinkering with custom rifles and handloads the 260 does the same thing, always has. Or if 120-130 gr hunting bullets are the heaviest bullets you want to shoot the 260 does the same thing as a 6.5CM.
If someone already has a 260, likes it, handloads, and if it does what they want it to do there is little reason to choose the 6.5CM. But if buying a new rifle there is no logical reason to choose the 260 over 6.5.
The problem is that those bullet weights wouldn't work in factory 260 rifles. The bullets were too long to fit the magazine or chamber and the barrels were twisted for much shorter hunting bullets and wouldn't shoot the longer target bullets accurately.
For years custom 260 rifles with modified magazines and special barrels on them were used in long range competition. Some of the long range shooters approached Hornady and asked them to develop a new factory cartridge that would duplicate the ballistics they were getting with their custom 260 rifles and out of spec handloads. The 6.5 CM is the result.
Hunters never fully accepted the concept of a 26 caliber 120 gr bullet for big game which is why the 260 never caught on. But moving up to a 140-150 gr bullet caught their attention. A few tried it and found it worked great on game as large as elk. Word spread and it is now a pretty common hunting round. I saw some sales figures for 2018 and nearly 1/2 of all new bolt action rifle sales were in 6.5 CM. I see it as a great balance between an acceptable hunting round and a great target round for the guy who wants to use one rifle for both.
If someone just enjoys tinkering with custom rifles and handloads the 260 does the same thing, always has. Or if 120-130 gr hunting bullets are the heaviest bullets you want to shoot the 260 does the same thing as a 6.5CM.
If someone already has a 260, likes it, handloads, and if it does what they want it to do there is little reason to choose the 6.5CM. But if buying a new rifle there is no logical reason to choose the 260 over 6.5.
GooseGestapo
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Not only does the Chamber cut limit the .260, it’s the magazine length also, but especially the twist rate.
Remington CLAIMS 1/10” in the early rifles, and SHOULD stabilize most hunting bullets. It would, only, but by ACTUAL measurement, my Rem Mod-7 has a 1/11” twist.
It shoots the long discontinued Sierra 160gr RN very well, but the Hornady 140gr SST won’t hit a 100yd berm!
I consider it a “FAT” .257 Roberts.... Just don’t bother with a plastic pointed boattail bullet over 123gr. Flat base Hornady’s or the PPU 139gr Semi-pointed BT shoot ok, as do the 140gr Corlokts.
I’ve also got a Rem Mod-7 in 7mm08. It kicks the .260’s behind in every category except tight groups. The .260’s a tack driver. Only reason I keep it.
BTW, I HAD a T/C Compass in 6.5CreedMOOR. I liked it so much, I gave it away....
Remington CLAIMS 1/10” in the early rifles, and SHOULD stabilize most hunting bullets. It would, only, but by ACTUAL measurement, my Rem Mod-7 has a 1/11” twist.
It shoots the long discontinued Sierra 160gr RN very well, but the Hornady 140gr SST won’t hit a 100yd berm!
I consider it a “FAT” .257 Roberts.... Just don’t bother with a plastic pointed boattail bullet over 123gr. Flat base Hornady’s or the PPU 139gr Semi-pointed BT shoot ok, as do the 140gr Corlokts.
I’ve also got a Rem Mod-7 in 7mm08. It kicks the .260’s behind in every category except tight groups. The .260’s a tack driver. Only reason I keep it.
BTW, I HAD a T/C Compass in 6.5CreedMOOR. I liked it so much, I gave it away....
Chuck R.
Member
This pretty much the boat I'm in.
I have a M7 in .260 in an HS Precision stock that shoots very well with 120 BTs and Accubonds. Primary purpose is a lightweight deer rifle for blinds and still hunting. I reload and can easily make brass from .243Win. When this barrel is gone I'll probably re-barrel it in .260AI, just to get a little more velocity.
David Hoback
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How is it you think CM has an advantage past 500yds?
For the OP, I actually just checked on Midway. There are 22 different factory loads AVAILABLE for 6.5CM. There are 19 AVAILABLE for 260 Rem. So I’d say the talk of 260 “fading“ has about as much weight as Joe Biden’s Polls.
mcb
Member
How is it you think CM has an advantage past 500yds?
For the OP, I actually just checked on Midway. There are 22 different factory loads AVAILABLE for 6.5CM. There are 19 AVAILABLE for 260 Rem. So I’d say the talk of 260 “fading“ has about as much weight as Joe Biden’s Polls.
Double check that. I just looked and there are 83 different factory loads for 6.5 CM and only 25 260 Remington loads at MidwayUSA. Only one of the 260 loads is over 140 gr where there are many loads over 140gr for 6.5 CM with some ranging up into the 150's gr. And this is why CM has the advantage beyond 500 yards. Those long, heavy, VLD bullets carry the energy, shoot flatter, and buck the wind better especially as you shoot further and further. Most 260 rifles simply do no have the twist or magazine room for these bullets.
Captcurt
Member
What MCB said.How is it you think CM has an advantage past 500yds?
JFrank
Member
Probably not every category , knock down power comes to mind
.455_Hunter
Member
After the .244 / 6 mm Remington debacle, you would think that Big Green wouldn't make the same twist mistake again, but they did.
David Hoback
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David Hoback
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Which part?? Where he was WRONG, or the part where he was INCORRECT?
JFrank
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