The .260 Remington

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South Prairie Jim said:
Twist rate does seem to be one of the issues for the 260 Remington so as much as I’d like to run a 260 It wouldn’t be an off the rack rifle for long range , so with that in mind just building an Akley is a better choice for myself OR go with the Creedmoor
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IMHO Creedmoor, its a SAAMI cartridge and though relatively young has become widely accepted, very popular, manufactures by nearly all the major firearms and ammunition makers and is well past the infant fatality dangers (like 30 Remington AR suffered). It even has limited deployment with both US and foreign military units. Love it or hate it 6.5 Creedmoor is here to stay and should have decent lasting power in the civilian market.

The 260 Akley is not SAAMI though far from rare and can certain shoot moderate weigh bullets faster than Creedmoor but it still suffers the same space problem 260 Remington has, if you're trying to feed from a 308 length magazine such as the common AICS short action magazines that are nearly universal in the latest generation of chassis guns and high performance rifle stocks you run out of room for the latest VLD bullets. By the time you seated these latest generation VLD bullet short enough for the magazine your crimp would be up on the ogive of the bullet.

Creedmoor nicely optimizes the balance of usable powder volume against room needed for VLD bullets when constrained by the standard short action usable length.

If you wanted to shoot lighter varmint bullets that make gophers explode at moderate ranges (300-500 yards) then I think you could make an argument for 260 AI over 6.5 CM but that is rather specialized.

Dang if I don't sound like a 6.5 Creedmoor fanboy and I don't even own one and never have...
 
mcb said:
IMHO Creedmoor, its a SAAMI cartridge and though relatively young has become widely accepted, very popular, manufactures by nearly all the major firearms and ammunition makers and is well past the infant fatality dangers (like 30 Remington AR suffered). It even has limited deployment with both US and foreign military units. Love it or hate it 6.5 Creedmoor is here to stay and should have decent lasting power in the civilian market.

The 260 Akley is not SAAMI though far from rare and can certain shoot moderate weigh bullets faster than Creedmoor but it still suffers the same space problem 260 Remington has, if you're trying to feed from a 308 length magazine such as the common AICS short action magazines that are nearly universal in the latest generation of chassis guns and high performance rifle stocks you run out of room for the latest VLD bullets. By the time you seated these latest generation VLD bullet short enough for the magazine your crimp would be up on the ogive of the bullet.

Creedmoor nicely optimizes the balance of usable powder volume against room needed for VLD bullets when constrained by the standard short action usable length.

If you wanted to shoot lighter varmint bullets that make gophers explode at moderate ranges (300-500 yards) then I think you could make an argument for 260 AI over 6.5 CM but that is rather specialized.

Dang if I don't sound like a 6.5 Creedmoor fanboy and I don't even own one and never have...
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Well I’m a Creedmoor fan as well but I looks like we are both guilty cause i don’t own a 260 Akley either. Lol
But I single shoot also so magazine length is a non issue for me. I suppose my point is Akley over SAMMI
 
David Hoback said:
“AVAILABLE!” 83 choices of ammunition which are OUT OF STOCK & NOT AVAILABLE won’t do you much good.

Oh! But I guess that fits in with the imaginary world the CM Fanboys Club! LOL!
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Imo
83 options total, is more telling than 25 in stock. Just because folks bought them all dosent mean there aren't more total options.
We already know the .260 isn't as popular as the 6.5CM, and I'd also postulate that most .260 aficionados reload.
Stands to reason fewer options, and more available factory ammo.

David Hoback said:
Which part?? Where he was WRONG, or the part where he was INCORRECT?
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The part where many, especially early, .260s arnt twisted fast enough to stabilize the 140gr class projectiles. Even flatbase hunting bullets sometimes won't stabilize.
If your buying an over the counter rifle, you need to check your twist rate....IF using the longer bullets matters.


I'm not arguing if one round is better than the other either. Just those particular statements.
I think the 6.5cm may have some advantages in specific platforms, but performance is so close that the advantages of one over the other in a properly set up rifle are trivial.
 
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Slater said:
With the 6.5mm Creedmore being all the rage these days, the .260 Remington seems to have faded into the background. Is the Creedmore superior in performance or is it just failure of Remington to market/support the .260?
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Only in that the rifles have a higher rifling twist rate that stabilize heavy, high BC bullets.

...just like the 6.5x55mm.

:D




GR
 
So the new argument is stock rifles and older twist rate used for 260? LOL! Ok, anyone using a STOCK manufacturer’s rifle in 6.5CM is not really competition against a custom built rig...REGARDLESS of chambering.

I build my own rifles. I choose the twist I want. My 260 bench rifle has a Shilen Match barrel with 1:8.
 
David Hoback said:
So the new argument is stock rifles and older twist rate used for 260? LOL! Ok, anyone using a STOCK manufacturer’s rifle in 6.5CM is not really competition against a custom built rig...REGARDLESS of chambering.

I build my own rifles. I choose the twist I want. My 260 bench rifle has a Shilen Match barrel with 1:8.
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That would depend on what type of competition you are talking about. A bench rest match you're probably right but for a club level PRS match you can go a long way with a good factory gun that can shoots MOA assuming you put good glass on it and select the right accessories.
 
Just cause we’re still talking around the campfire, I’ll ask this question; take a well tuned 260 and a comparable 6.5 Creedmoor and shoot them side by side at let’s say 1000 yards now without knowing who shot which one.
Who’ can tell the difference? I suspect they shoot near identical
 
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David Hoback said:
So the new argument is stock rifles and older twist rate used for 260? LOL! Ok, anyone using a STOCK manufacturer’s rifle in 6.5CM is not really competition against a custom built rig...REGARDLESS of chambering.

I build my own rifles. I choose the twist I want. My 260 bench rifle has a Shilen Match barrel with 1:8.
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I think we're all aware that if you build a rifle, or buy selectively you can get what ever you want.

The op asked if the 6.5 was superior in performance, or if it was simply a marketing failure. IMO the marketing failure of FACTORY rifles, and the relatively poor performance (even tho performance is as intended) of the chosen twist rate, go hand in hand.
Custom guns, running special ammo, dont really matter towards over all popularity of survivability of a cartridge.

As has been stated multiple times, in pure performance a properly set up rifle in either cartridge will produce results with little or no real difference. Even the larger rounds like the 6.5-284 and 6.5PRC have to spend a lot more energy to achieve noticeable gains over the CM, or .260.

As to who's competing with what, dunno. I don't hear much about the 6.5CM or .260 anymore, tho I'm sure they are still in use.
 
South Prairie Jim said:
Just cause we’re still talking around the campfire, I’ll ask this question; take a well tuned 260 and a comparable 6.5 Creedmoor and shoot them side by side at let’s say 1000 yards now without know who shot which one.
Who’ can tell the difference? I suspect they shoot near identical
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Not much difference

Using Hornady published numbers in JBM's calculator.

A 130 gr ELD-M bullet fired at 2840 fps from a 260 Rem in a 10 mph cross wind gets to 1000 yards with 309 inches of drop, 84 inches of drift and 23.7% of its muzzle energy.
A 147 gr ELD-M bullet fired at 2695 fps from a 6.5 CM in a 10 mph cross wind get to 1000 yards with 305 inches of drop, 64 inches of drift and 32.3% of it muzzle energy.

So about the same drop but you can see the heavier bullet that 6.5 CM can use bucks the wind better and retains energy better down range. Given that reading the wind is IMHO the hardest part of long range shooting that wind drift is a fairly big deal for the long range shooters. The less the bullet drifts the less their error in reading the wind will effect the shooters ability to get hits at long range.
 
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South Prairie Jim said:
Just cause we’re still talking around the campfire, I’ll ask this question; take a well tuned 260 and a comparable 6.5 Creedmoor and shoot them side by side at let’s say 1000 yards now without know who shot which one.
Who’ can tell the difference? I suspect they shoot near identical
Click to expand...


Correct! No one would be able to tell. Given equal rigs, ammo, conditions, etc.

But again, I don’t understand someone else’s post comparing a 147gr load to a 130gr load. Everyone I run into loading 260 runs 140gr+ bullets. And at higher velocity than 6.5CM.

The 260 will always have a velocity advantage with same weight bullets over 6.5CM. Just as 6.5-284 will always have a velocity advantage over 260. I’m not arguing one better over the other. My point was simply stating the small advantages of each. (Which I did)...ie., 6.5cm generally having more off the shelf. (Look at my first post). But I will point out bad information...for instance, when someone references 260 unable to run the heavier pills.
 
David Hoback said:
But I will point out bad information...for instance, when someone references 260 unable to run the heavier pills.
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In many cases, the 260 cannot run the heavier / VLD bullets because (putting aside the factory barrel twist issues) the bullet length and ogive shape won't fit the OAL constraints of the cartridge. That's why the 6.5 Creed was invented.
 
mcb said:
Not much difference

Using Hornady published numbers in JBM's calculator.

A 130 gr ELD-M bullet fired at 2840 fps from a 260 Rem in a 10 mph cross wind gets to 1000 yards with 309 inches of drop, 84 inches of drift and 23.7% of its muzzle energy.
A 147 gr ELD-M bullet fired at 2695 fps from a 6.5 CM in a 10 mph cross wind get to 1000 yards with 305 inches of drop, 64 inches of drift and 32.3% of it muzzle energy.

So about the same drop but you can see the heavier bullet that 6.5 CM can use bucks the wind better and retains energy better down range. Given that reading the wind is IMHO the hardest part of long range shooting that wind drift is a fairly big deal for the long range shooters. The less the bullet drifts the less my error in reading the wind will effect the shooters ability to get hits at long range.
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Why are we comparing two rifles each using different weight Bullets?
I’m not following the logic..
 
rbernie said:
In many cases, the 260 cannot run the heavier / VLD bullets because (putting aside the factory barrel twist issues) the bullet length and ogive shape won't fit the OAL constraints of the cartridge. That's why the 6.5 Creed was invented.
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Would you be so kind as to name a few? That way people will know what to stay away from. Or was that something you’ve heard.... “from a friend” perhaps?
 
South Prairie Jim said:
Why are we comparing two rifles each using different weight Bullets?
I’m not following the logic..
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Because a standard 260 Remington does not have the room or twist rate to utilize a VLD bullet above ~130 grains. This is 6.5 CM advantage over 260 Rem the ability to use the heavier longer bullets. The loads I used where the two heaviest loads Hornady offered utilized the ELD-M line of bullets in each cartridge.
 
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