The 38 Super - Questions

[Leaky Waders]

Hi,

I'll be home again at the end of this year and was looking to get a 1911 for 2011 in 38 super. I've been reading about them alot online and still have questions that I hope you pistolaros can answer.

Right now I was virtually looking at Colt's - the bright stainless custom one, and the special combat government. Once I started looking at the high end colt I figured the Les Baer - the commanche (commander model), and the Wilson models were viable options too. It seems Ed Brown doesn't list anything in 38 super.

So I know all of the pistols listed are different in respect to size and stuff - but:

1) What makes the Colt Custom bright stainless steel a 'custom' blue box gun? Is it just polished or is it hand fitted or something?

2) The Colt Special Combat Government has bull barrels in 38 super. To my understanding the bull barrel adds a little weight and doesn't use a barrel bushing. Is this better than the ones that use barrel bushings and standard barrels somehow? How is the longevity of a barrel bushing fitted barrel compared to the bull barrel slide fit?

3) How does 38 super compare in a commander sized vs a government sized pistol? Like is there a ball of fire? Are the ballistics that much difference should I choose to carry a commander sized model? (Right now my carry - when I'm stateside is a J frame 357).

4) Do I need a 'supported barrel'? I'll be shooting factory and reloading following established recipes for mild fun shooting.

5) Do Les Baer pistols use mim? It doesnt really say so on their site, how about Wilson?

6) Should I choose, later on, to swap to a 9mm slide and barrel...I really doubt I do but just want to know, will Colt, Les Baer, and Wilson parts interchange with standard parts from other manufacturers?

7) I heard, and read, that Les Baer pistols are really 'tight'. Are they a reliable carry gun or a range only gun?

Presently I own 3 government sized 1911's in 45 colt, I'm just wanting to branch out a little.

If anybody recommends any other brand thats cool. I don't want from serrations. I have some on a colt xse and dont mind them, but want something more classic looking in a 38 super.

Thanks,

LW

 

[docnyt]

I have no experience with the higher end 38 supers so I can't help you there. My wife and I do love shooting our lowly Rock Island in nickel finish. Some hiccups early on with the feed ramp needing polishing and I still have to find the best ammo for it to feed reliably. It is very accurate, has excellent fit and finish and is a joy to shoot.

I'm sure more experienced 38 super lovers will chime in soon.

 

[surjimmy]

I had a Les Baer PII IN a 38 Super, it is the only pistol I regret selling. Fantastic pistol and great round.

 

[38 Super Fan]

1. I believe the "Colt Custom" bright stainless 38 Super gets the "custom" moniker from the finish, which is done at the custom shop. I don't think the custom shop does and extra work to them. Never the less, it's a good gun, I happen to own one.

2. Bull barrels are supposedly more accurate all things being equal. But it's such a small difference I don't really find it to be a factor, the standard bushing set up is capable of tremendous accuracy. Longevity is virtually identical, it's really just a matter of taste in my opinion.

3. I've never had a commander sized Super so I can't comment as much on this. Shooting a Super is a pleasent experience, muzzle flash is greater than that of 45 ACP, and you really feel the muzzle blast, similar to 357 Magnum. Ballistically many standard 38 Super loads are similar to a real hot 9mm. But hot loads like Cor-Bon rival your standard 357 Magnum in power. Commander vs Government size is really just another subjective/practical thing.

4. No need for supported barrels, nice feature, my RRA has one; but by no means is it a requirement.

5. No MIM in any models from Baer. I believe Wilson's basic models such as the CQB utilize a couple MIM "non essential" parts such as slide stops and grip safeties. I wouldn't worry too much about a couple MIM small parts, Wilson's MIM is very good as far as MIM goes. Higher end Wilson's utilize no MIM, and you can even order their "Bullet Proof" parts for any model, these parts are forged, so if MIM does bother you, Wilson will hook you up with these parts for any model.

6. I don't think a slide swap is required on 38 Super to 9mm conversions. Just barrel and possibly extractor, the extractor may actually just need tuning, as far as conversions go I'm no expert, can't really help you much there.

7. Yes Baer's are very tight, but also very reliable. Many folks use a Baer as a CCW. They break in nicely after 500 rounds or so.

If you can afford a Baer that is the route that I'd really recommend, I own a Premier II in 45 ACP, and it's a terrific pistol, a big step up from the Colt's your also considering. In fact, I think Baer just introduced a new Commander sized 38 Super model.

The 38 Super is a fantasic cartridge with great performance, as well as a unique and interesting history. I hope my reply helped you out some.

 

[DT Guy]

Skip the super, get a 9mm barrel and a 9x23 barrel.

The 9x23 is expensive, but most things you shoot with it won't need to get shot again, so that cuts down on expenses.

Larry

 

[Walkalong]

I think Baer just introduced a new Commander sized 38 Super model.

Ooooghhh......

 

[38 Super Fan]

Actually the new Baer is the Commanche which was mentioned in the OP, they've long had a Commanche model, just not in 38 Super.

 

[PO2Hammer]

There were some things about my .38 Super Baer P-II that disappointed.
The sights were poor quality - the rear notch had rounded corners at the top, one side more rounded than the other, made for a less than precise sight picture. I had to buy a Caspian 'Bomar' rear (very nice, precise sight).
The front was also poorly cast, with a slight twist to it, so that the right side of the blade was just visible when sighting.
The spring plug was really cheap looking, with uneven checkering.
The hand checkering on the frame had several lines that went 'off track'.
The grip panels had many missing points on the checkering.
The extractor hole through the slide was oval shaped, and you could wiggle the hook and see it move at the rear. Removing the extractor you could see they really pushed the feed rate on that drill, it almost looked like a threaded hole. (no extraction problems however)
The fast extractor hole drilling left a heavy burr in the breach face that caused some feed problems until I found it and stoned it off.
The blueing wore through very quickly in the grip area.
The trigger take up was gritty, but the break was good.
But... it was a very accurate and reliable (once I found the burr on the breach face) pistol.
It was very well fitted between the slide and frame and slide and bushing/barrel. No play anywhere. It shot every handload I could come up with very well.
Mine was one of the early ones from the new Iowa plant, maybe they have improved their QC since.
Several parts were obviously cast or MIM (parting lines or other molding marks), slide release, mag release, rear sight, front sight, grip safety. Not sure about the extractor.

As far as the .38 Super goes, it's a great cartridge for the handloader, heavy load are pleasant to shoot, any .355" or .356" bullet works, brass is thick and lasts a long time.
I never noticed any muzzle flash.

 

[GLOOB]

Just get a regular 9mm 1911, put in a stiffer spring, and work up some hot loads with the over-SAAMI OAL that the platform allows.

 

[BullfrogKen]

1) What makes the Colt Custom bright stainless steel a 'custom' blue box gun? Is it just polished or is it hand fitted or something?

I can't say. Call or e-mail Colt and ask your question.

2) The Colt Special Combat Government has bull barrels in 38 super. To my understanding the bull barrel adds a little weight and doesn't use a barrel bushing. Is this better than the ones that use barrel bushings and standard barrels somehow? How is the longevity of a barrel bushing fitted barrel compared to the bull barrel slide fit?

I'd personally go with the standard barrel bushing set up. You'll find that if you want to do some upgrades to your 1911 in the future that you'll have much more options available.

3) How does 38 super compare in a commander sized vs a government sized pistol? Like is there a ball of fire? Are the ballistics that much difference should I choose to carry a commander sized model? (Right now my carry - when I'm stateside is a J frame 357).

About 50 fps difference in muzzle velocity, on average. The faster powders resist it more, but the slower powders do suffer greater loss in M.V. It's not going to approach 100 fps difference though. Mine is a Commander model. I've seen both, and the Commander does carry easier than a full size Gov't. No, there is no ball of fire from a Commander-sized 38 Super.

4) Do I need a 'supported barrel'? I'll be shooting factory and reloading following established recipes for mild fun shooting.

Yes, I would go with a ramped barrel. If you don't do it now, eventually you will handload for it. Factory 38 Super is too weak, and won't take full advantage of the round's capability. Handloading does. Having the fully supported barrel will add some safety to avoid case ruptures, as well as prolong the life your brass.

5) Do Les Baer pistols use mim? It doesnt really say so on their site, how about Wilson?

Don't know. Call or e-mail them and ask.

6) Should I choose, later on, to swap to a 9mm slide and barrel...I really doubt I do but just want to know, will Colt, Les Baer, and Wilson parts interchange with standard parts from other manufacturers?

That's too tough to tell without knowing what you spec your 1911 out for. Fortunately, you only need to fit a barrel to shoot anything in the 9mm family (9x23; 9x21; 38 Super; 9mm) through the gun. You don't need a new slide. The only thing I have to do with mine when I switch from 9mm to 38 Super or 9x23 is swap the barrel and put in the appropriate weight recoil spring (usually 2 lbs lighter or heavier, depending on which way I go).

However, these parts need to be fit properly. You can't just drop in a part and think it'll be just fine. I'd seriously recommend finding a good 1911 pistolsmith to have it done right. If you decide to play with the 9x23, you really need to have someone who knows what he's doing inside a 1911 to do it. The pressures it operates at are way high, and the penalty for doing it wrong is harsh. You will get hurt.

7) I heard, and read, that Les Baer pistols are really 'tight'. Are they a reliable carry gun or a range only gun?

Les Baer makes a fine gun. If it's not reliable, send it back for tuning. You might want to have a conversation with some of these shops before you make your purchase. They'll guide you through and make sure you buy something that will make you happy.

 

[bannockburn]

Over the years, I have had a number of Colt .38 Supers, typically Commander or Combat Commander versions. I just like the size, weight, and balance of the shorter Commanders. First thing I usually do is order a 9mm. barrel assembly and magazine so I can practice with much less expensive ammo. I don't push the envelope as far as my reloading goes, so I have never had a need for a ramped barrel set-up. If given a choice, I would probably stick to the standard barrel/bushing design versus a bull barrel configuration.