the $4,000 72 hour kit

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I'd be inclined to keep the Glock - and the rifle.

In regards to water; the only thing a good two stage charcoal and ceramic water filter will not do is filter out viruses. I like the Katadyn Pocket filter, and add an inline charcoal module for chemical removal. Something like iodine is necessary if waterborne viruses might be present and there are bottled pills for this. Someone mentioned cheesecloth, I would add coffee filters as a good pre-filter item.

In addition to latex gloves for medical emergencies I would add a dozen pairs or more of disposable nitrile gloves. Light, and always better than getting your hands really "dirty"; like dealing with a roadside auto repair, cleaning your guns after a rain soaking etc.

I prefer my own food packets made up of fresh fruit "eat first" items, nuts, dry add-water-cook foods, and some vitamin/supplements. A good lightweight camp stove and cook set makes for a fire free camp if prudent. Add some Green & Blacks chocolate, a few good cigars and a small flask of scotch or brandy. Such things help take the edge off a really rainy day.

Batteries. I agree that rechargables are a bad idea. Unless you have a big solar panel, the best you are going to be able to do is trickle charge on a bright sunny day. That makes them all but useless. Better IMO are the best lithium batteries. Lithium batteries last longer by far than the best alkaline in use, and there is only a fractional loss of stored power over their long shelf life. I have restricted most of my weekend bag gadgets to AA/AAA battery types - and I collect Energizer Ultimate Lithium AA/AAA batteries. Every time I see them on sale with coupons added I buy a pack or two. I have a box full of them, and they are all good to circa 2024.

I would also have a machete (or ax), unless you live in the desert areas.

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Je Suis Prest
 
ok, so see my post above for an explanation of what this kit is for, and with that in my, here ya go:


Boonie hat – Would be better on your head than in your pack
um, yes. yes it would. :)

Air filter masks (4) – Is that four masks for one face or one mask for four faces?
major earthquake, gas lines break, big fire, closed off valley - weeks of thick nasty soot and smoke. yes, these could come in handy.

Water filter – Always a good idea. A chemical treatment is light and makes a good back-up.
good idea about the backup.

Latex gloves (20) – You can blow them up like balloons; entertaining for kids.
sometimes big disasters that require emergency supplies involve blood. sometimes lots of blood. latex gloves are good for that sort of thing.

MREs (4) – Humping 50# of gear around, you’ll need them
hopefully humping this around will be the last resort...i hope to stay at home or be in my car.

Mosquito netting – Imagine all the mosquitoes you can net!
i hate mosquitoes.

DEET – A good idea since you don’t have a tent.
i can't walk to where i may need to go in a tent...

Red light filter – Makes things look weird, sort of cool for the kids to play with
without a red filter, night vision is ruined, and also, white light may attract people that i dont want to attract at night.

Flare – Good for alerting traffic if you collapse under the weight of the pack on some dark road.
seems like a good emergency signal.

Zip ties (25) – A zombie with zip-tied ankles is a zombie you don’t have to shoot. Saves ammo!
zip ties are good for connecting things. 101 uses.

Folding shovel – You never know when a foxhole will come in handy.
ever try to dig a car out of the snow or mud with your hands?

Sleeping bag – Useless if it gets wet, and without a tent it probably will.
getting a lightweight tent is not a bad idea. also, i just got a usgi no-rip poncho today. this should keep things dry.

Crowbar – Just in case the shovel wasn’t enough dead weight.
wrench can turn off gas mains, break into houses and cars if need be. yes, it's heavy. force = mass X acceleration.

Framless backpack – I hope it has wheels.
i actually have considered mounting some kind of off-road garden cart wheels to this - it would be a lot nicer i think.

First aid pack – Always a good idea, a lot can happen in 72 hours.
i will always be happy if i have too many medical supplies - plus, great for helping out others or for trading.

Caffeine mints – You’ll be minty fresh and wide awake. Useful for kissing your way out of a jam.
tired, cold, hungry, but you have to keep moving? you can't go to starbucks.

Freezer bags – A couple are always good, eight might be a bit excessive, so they fit right in.
lightweight, waterproof - why not have extra?

Wool socks – Always a good idea.
should have an extra pair..

Pepper spray – Makes a neat hissing sound.
stray dogs, drunks, who knows. i dont like injuring people or animals..

10X monocular – Helps you see things you’d be able to walk to if your pack was lighter.
yes, it's a heavy pack...hopefully it stays in my house or car..

Multi-tool – Always good to have.
yep.

180 lumen flashlight – Will light up one of the 72 hours for you. An LED headlamp would be better.
actually, if you look carefully in the top right corner you will see an LED headlamp. i forgot to include it in the text. red filter too. ;)

Sunglasses – In case you forget which way to point the 180 lumen flashlight.
outdoors in the winter you can go blind pretty quick in the snow without sunglasses.

Handcuffs – Hey, nobody said survival couldn’t be kinky.
okay, this might a little excessive..

Folding knife – To make the folding knife blade in the multi-tool jealous.
you ever try taking a blade out of a multi-tool? what a pain...plus, redundancy is always good.

GMRS radio – Ten-four good buddy
23 miles range, but realistically more like 1 or 2 miles.

Towels and rags – You’ll be dry!
the katrina guys are always saying that they really wished they had towels. really.

Whistle – Always a good idea.
that fox40 is super loud.

Smoke grenades (4) – Diversionary tactic or for signaling helicopters.
yep.

50’ paracord – Always a good idea.
someone said 250' but i think 50' is probably okay.

Sterno cans (6) – Kinda pointless without the chafing dish, don’t you think?
great for easy, clean heat. light weight, and also, i do have a little heating stand there. lots better than having to play boyscout by gathering kindling every time i need some heat.

Bic lighters (10) – You can attend a lot of concerts in 72 hours with ten lighters.
i lose things and they are cheap.

Compass – In case you happen upon a hot girl who remembered a map but forgot a compass.
interesting thing - studies have shown that without a clear sky (no stars, sun or moon) people that try to travel in a straight line end up going in big loops instead. but yeah, i should have a map in there.

Work gloves – In case you find a job out there.
your hands are really critical tools - you need to protect them! changing a flat tire, or moving debris could easily cause an accident that could mess up your hands.

Water (4) – Fragile bottles, four times the chance for one of them to leak onto your sleeping bag.
i've never seen a plastic water bottle burst, and i've given them a pretty good beating. but i guess they could get punctured - not many viable alternatives there.

Solar recharger – Apparently for the GMRS radio. You’ll be able to talk to all the kids.
Batteries – See the above.
for the radio, LED headlamp, flashlight and there is a USB cell charger on it just in case the cell system actually still works.

ID and Cash – A bonus for whoever finds your carcass!
if my house is flooded, burned down or otherwise destroyed, having these kind of documents will be really nice to have. plus, unless you think US currency will be rendered worthless by a natural disaster, having some cash is never a bad idea!

Soap – Yes, please use the soap.
seems like a good idea..

Baby wipes – Is there room for a baby?
keeping clean is important for morale, and to prevent infection.

Crystal Light packets (12) – That’s, like, totally a dozen. That’s a lot of cherry flavor for 72 hours!
filtered rain water taken from a puddle on the ground doesn't taste very good. and yeah, if i'm doing that for a week or two, i'll be really happy to have a dozen packets...

Duct tape – Always good to have.
i should have included some bailing wire. really.

MRE heating packs – Didn’t the MREs mentioned previously already have heaters?
little bags that heat up to 200 degrees by adding water seems like it could come in handy. they are light too.

Celox blood clot – Just in case the zombies figure out how to shoot guns.
bad guys don't go on vacation when big disasters happen, and police and medical personnel may be pre-occupied.

Severe trauma pack – So that “comprehensive” first aid pack wasn’t so comprehensive?
i had extras, and it seems to go along well with the celox.
Glock 9mm – No ammo? Well, jam a rod down the barrel and you’ve got a putter.
it's in the mags. if i need more than 3 mags of 9mm, then i think i'm in a pretty hopeless situation, and more ammo really wouldn't help.

SCAR – Another bonus for whoever finds your carcass first!
light weight, ergonomical, balanced, low maintenance. plus, with each of the 4 packs equipped with this, and w/ 3 mags of ammo each, i think people may find easier prey to pick on. again, if we need more ammo than that, then something really weird has happened.
 
first off - what type of situation is this for? one word: katrina. no, i don't expect a hurricane in my town, but katrina is the best example of a major disaster situation that lasts a long time. i live in the high desert rocky mountains, hence the summer/winter mix of gear.
In something like that carrying a long gun is going to draw attention. Its the one time I actually think my Kel-Tec Sub 2000 is a practical weapon. Fold it up and hide it from sight in my pack and it uses the same rounds as my pistol. High desert is a tough long term proposition. You really need a sewing kit and I'd seriously try to get the weight down to 35 pounds. Then add more food and water. Its easy to dump and water you can get a couple of hundred yards from your car and drink quite a bit before continuing so you are not starting out dehydrated.
 
prefetch: A lot of valuable advice in the above posts. Valuable or not, here’s mine…

First: A link to posts I've previously submitted on this and related topics (i.e., how much stuff / what type of stuff to carry): http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=430877&page=4

Second: I think you need to further define your scenario and goals before you sink money into refining the expensive contents of multiple BOBs. It's always good to plan for contingencies, but you can rapidly get lost in the "widget for every problem" continuum. In your attempt to generally cover all contingencies, you wind up under planning for the most likely / most dangerous events, over planning for unlikely occurrences, and ensuring that you have killed your survivability by overloading. Stay out of the Widgiverse and make minimized weight your goal. Carry items that can perform double or triple duty. Avoid overloading yourself with “backups” for a given functional area; you don’t actually need to carry 5 different ways to start a fire.

That said, here are some fundamental questions that need answering before you start throwing together gear:

1. You said that you are planning to build four bags. Exactly who will carry them?

Will they all be for you? Perhaps you intend to store at separate locations (work, home, off-site storage, or bug-out location). Perhaps you intend to emplace pre-positioned and hidden caches along your route of travel?

Or, are they for other folks? Family? Friends? Trusted or unvetted? Adult males? Females? Children? Your children…or someone else’s? Physical condition, limitations, and capabilities for all involved? Eight year olds can’t carry 50 pound backpacks.

Whatever your load out, the term "bug out" bag implies that you can carry it easily for many miles and that you can RUN with it for at least several hundred yards. If it's heavier than that, you are humping a ruck; you are hiking at slow walking speed with a heavily loaded backpack.

2. What weather and seasons do you anticipate? (edit to add prefetch's location: High Desert Rockies...Got it...Very familiar with the area)

Do you live with four seasons having extreme temperature or precipitation differences? Or a year-round mild climate? Expected or potential drought, heat waves, humidity, rains, floods, forest fires, snow, ice storms, earthquakes, magma, plagues of locusts, etc…?

Equip yourself to handle the most prevalent/likely environmental threat before you start worrying about outlier problems. Will lack of winter clothing kill you long before you are hungry enough to need a fishing kit? People love to include fishing kits in survival packages...without checking to see if there are even fish-able waters in their area. But they forget to include winter gloves and hats.

3. Across what type of terrain would your movement path most likely take you?

Prairie, woodlands, urban warrens, suburbs, desert, mountains, hill country, moving along paved roads or highways, following or crossing streams, creeks, swamps, rivers, coastal waterways? Do you need to cross any non-fordable bodies of water (e.g., the Ohio River or a large lake)?

4. How far do you need to travel and what is a realistic timetable for movement, whether in a vehicle or on foot?

Refine your estimate of the distance most likely needed to move. The experiences of backpackers, hunters, climbers, or infantry types are extremely important to pay attention to. Most folks seriously over estimate their ability to move anywhere carrying weight. Professionals have all learned (painfully) to carry only what is actually needed. No one is born with the expertise…it is taught and learned over a period of time, and paid for with blown out joints, raw feet, gastro-intestinal issues, and strained musculature.

I’ve spent all of my adult life doing the sneak around the countryside thing carrying a rucksack while other folks attempted to find me (in training) or kill me (when it was in someone else’s country). My rule of thumb in a generic “survival”, “social upheaval”, or “natural/man-made disaster” situation…a group of healthy adult males will be doing well to complete 12 miles in an average day or night of foot movement, while carrying moderate loads on their backs. This holds true whether for a patrol of Airborne Rangers, Appalachian Trail through-hikers, or mountaineers on an approach march. Even if you are walking alongside paved roads on level ground (walking along a freeway)…you will not make the ambitious distance that many envision in their heads.

Think about it. Even in a permissive environment (where law and order exists and some services are still available), people may still become temporary refugees. Whether stuck in massive traffic jams or reduced to walking long distances along man-made routes (roads, trails, streets, railways), you will be traveling the same direction as many other folks and for the same reasons. Friction will ensue. Some folks will want what you have. Some will get in your way and slow you down. Some will attempt to attach themselves to you despite their inability to provide supplies or resources. Some strangers may actively impede your movement or offer you violence. Groups of desperate people may eventually succumb to a mob mentality, triggered by some emotional outburst or the urgings of some would-be alpha male / alpha pair type. Competition for resources begins when folks run out of water, shelter, food, gasoline, and patience.

For planning of vehicle fuel and fluids (oil, coolant, winter wiper fluid), imagine a Memorial Day, Labor Day, or Fourth of July traffic jam. Remember or review the reports from the Katrina evacuation. Multiply the effect by a significant factor if there is an imminent threat. The ¼ tank of fuel needed for a normal trip to Grandma’s House might be burned sitting in a 50 mile long traffic jam or the off-ramp to a gas-station that just ran out of fuel, fluids, water, toilets, and food. In a dry environment, after a day or so without water, EVERYONE will move to the nearest perceived supply. "Waterholes" are dangerous places. Predators and prey gather at the same locations. It's not just something you watch on Animal Planet.

If the situation becomes semi-permissive (threat of mob or sectarian violence, breakdown of law and order, checkpoints, barricades, mass incarceration, or forceful evacuation by authorities), you might find yourself moving cross country, through cover or concealment (hills, forest, or brush) and along natural lines of drift (valley floors, ridgelines, or waterways). Moving across this type of terrain cuts your daily movement plan even further.

Herds move more slowly than individuals. You are not going to make 30 mile, 25 miles, or even 20 miles on foot accompanied by small children, loved ones of smaller stature or advanced years, or other out of shape companions. You will move as fast as the slowest link, no matter how dear to you that person is.

Add in blazing summer temperatures, pitch dark, freezing cold wind, snow, driving rain, sleet, or fog…and movement will drastically slow down.

Twelve miles per day with moderate packs (25-50 pounds) is a good planning figure for a group moving both deliberately and stealthily. Covering 4 mph on pavement with 45-60 pound rucks and weapons is a stiff 12-miles-in-three hour pace for trained infantry. At best, you are probably going to move half that fast and need rest breaks, chow breaks, and occasional security breaks to reconnoiter and figure out what is going on ahead of you (and whether you should change direction or go hide).

5. So…How long do you really need to live out of the contents? (See # 4 above)

You already indicated simply using the term “72-Hour Bag” as a general term familiar to readers and that you understand the reality might be more or less. Refine the timeline a little further to arrive at what you are actually going to carry.

If you simply intend to get as far away from trouble as quickly as possible, grab everyone, leave early with what you need for a hotel, and have plenty of cash and credit cards. Carry as much contingency gear, irreplaceable mementos, and personal/financial data as you can, but keep foot-movement BOBs light; everything else gets stored in the vehicle and is expendable (in case you have to abandon the ride).

If you need to walk home from work…say 5 to 40 miles…you need some backpacking and self protection type items to travel solo for a period of 1-5 days.

Longer term, if you need to abandon your home to rioters, flee your about to be mob-looted mini-van, or get ahead of some cataclysm…you need carefully parsed weights of critical outdoor backpacker items, some practical rehearsal time using it on hikes, and a plan for acquiring water after the first 5 days (rationed) and food after the first two weeks (rationed). You won’t be able to carry more than that on your back, even if you are carrying very little of anything else and pre-plan/package the weight and calories for every meal carried.

Thirdly: My minor suggestions to your list (I’ll mainly touch on things not already addressed by someone else)…

Mosquito netting – NOT SURE WHAT YOU ARE USING FROM YOUR PHOTO. SUGGEST USING A MOSQUITO HEAD NET PER PERSON; COMBINE WITH LONG SLEEVED SHIRT, PANTS, LIGHT GLOVES, & DEET…GOOD TO GO…FROM AFRICA, TO MIDDLE-EAST, DEEP IN THE JUNGLE OF PANAMA, SWAMPS IN FLORIDA, AND FIERCELY INFESTED ROCKIES. YOU DON’T HAVE TO SET UP A HOOTCH, TENT, SHELTER OR HAMMOCK BEFORE YOU CAN BE PROTECTED. SIMPLY SET BACKPACK ON GROUND, SIT DOWN TO REST, AND PLACE HEAD NET OVER HEAD.

Flare – Good for alerting traffic if you collapse under the weight of the pack on some dark road. LOSE IT. UNNECESSARY WEIGHT. MOVE OFF THE ROAD. IF YOU ARE BY YOURSELF AND COLLAPSE, HOW WILL YOU LIGHT IT? IT WON’T LAST LONG. GET A TINY LIGHTWEIGHT BLINKING RED LED MADE FOR RUNNERS OR PET COLLARS; ALTERNATIVELY A PETZL HEADLAMP WITH STROBE FEATURE.

Zip ties (25) – LOSE ‘EM. WHO ARE YOU GOING TO CAPTURE? THEN WHAT?

Folding shovel – JUST KEEP THIS AND/OR A SNOW SHOVEL IN YOUR CAR. A FOLDING E-TOOL IS TOO MUCH WEIGHT IN YOUR PACK…UNLESS YOU ARE EXPECTING TO CONSTRUCT FIGHTING POSITIONS OR FOXHOLES WITH OVERHEAD COVER. GET ONE OF THE ORANGE ABS BACKPACKER TROWELS FOR CARRY IN THE BOB. TROWEL WILL SUFFICE FOR HOLES TO POOP IN, CACHES, ETC. THEY WEIGH ONLY OUNCES AND ARE DAMNED NEAR INDESTRUCTABLE. http://store.everestgear.com/159070.html

Sleeping bag – YOUR INCLUSION OF A COLD WX BAG SUGGESTS THAT YOU LIVE IN A WINTER ENVIRONMENT. I HAVE ONLY A FEW SUGGESTIONS FOR YOU: GO WITH A BAG RATED FOR THE LOWEST TEMPERATURE POSSIBLE (AT LEAST 0 DEG; -15, -20, ETC IS BETTER). BAG MANUFACTURERS ARE NOTORIOUS FOR EXAGERATING THE COMFORT LEVEL OF THEIR BAGS. IF YOU FIND YOURSELF IN A WINTER BOB SITUATION, THAT SLEEPING BAG IS PROBABLY WAY, WAY MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE SCAR. BUY QUALITY, BUY MAX INSULATION VALUE, AND GET A BIVY SACK TO PROTECT THE BAG IF YOU EXPECT WET COLD, RAIN, OR FLOODED/GROUNDSOAKED CONDITIONS. IN FACT, BUY A GOOD GORETEX BIVY SACK ANYWAY. A WET BAG IS A DOOMED NIGHT OF SLEEP AND POSSIBLE DEATH. YOU ALSO NEED TO GET SLEEPING PADS (ONE FOR EACH SLEEPING BAG). ANY CLOSED CELL FOAM BACKPACKER PAD WILL DO. PREMIUM RIDGERESTS OR SELF-INFLATING THERMA-RESTS ARE NICE, BUT THE SIMPLE FOAM ONES THEY SELL IN WAL-MART WILL WORK JUST FINE. STAY AWAY FROM AIR-MATTRESSES LIKE THE PLAGUE. THEY OFFER ZERO INSULATION FROM THE FROZEN/WET GROUND AND WILL PUNCTURE, BECOMING USELESS. INERT CLOSED CELL FOAM IS THE WAY TO GO IN A LIFE OR DEATH SITUATION. THE BIVY SACK, THE PAD, AND THE SLEEPING BAG COMPRISE A SYSTEM…EACH IS A LEG ON THE STOOL. YOU NEED ALL THREE. DOWN BAGS ARE STILL THE GOLD STANDARD FOR ABSOLUTE INSULATION VALUE AND LIGHTEST WEIGHT/BULK, BUT SYNTHETIC BAGS RETAIN INSULATION VALUE WHEN DAMP/WET AND ARE A LOT CHEAPER. FOR TOUGH CONDITIONS IN CHANGEABLE WEATHER AND SETTINGS (RAIN & WET SNOW), GO WITH SYNTHETIC FILL. REI’S WEBSITE HAS A PRETTY DECENT SELECTION OF BAGS AND WEBSITE INFO ABOUT BAG SELECTION.

Crowbar – Just in case the shovel wasn’t enough dead weight.
wrench can turn off gas mains, break into houses and cars if need be. yes, it's heavy. force = mass X acceleration. THIS IS A TOOL FOR YOUR CAR, NOT YOUR PACK. REALLY, REALLY USELESS WEIGHT WHEN WALKING. I’D KEEP THE SHOVEL BEFORE THIS. YOU COULD CARRY A SMALL 6” -7” PRY BAR INSTEAD TO OPEN DOORS, WINDOWS, OR LOCKS. http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-55-045-7-1-2-Inch-Wonder/dp/B00002X1XS

Caffeine mints – ALSO CAFFEINE GUM. GOOD STUFF WHEN YOU ARE TIRED BUT NEED TO STAY AWAKE OR ALERT. OR ARE CRAVING A SMOKE BUT CAN’T (DUE TO SECURITY ISSUES).

Handcuffs – LOSE ‘EM. EXCESSIVE WEIGHT. REALLY. UNLESS YOU ARE PART OF A PURPOSE ORGANIZED ASSAULT FORCE OR CONDUCTING LEO DUTIES…YOU DON’T NEED TO BE WORRIED ABOUT RESTRAINING FOLKS. IF THE SITUATION AND SOCIAL ORDER HAVE DETERIORATED TO THE POINT WHERE YOU DO…YOU DON’T NEED TO BE BRINGING DETAINEES ALONG WITH YOU ANYWAY.

Towels and rags – LOSE ‘EM. IF YOU ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO HAVE ONE…HAVE JUST ONE. ONE SMALL TERRY FACIAL TOWEL WILL SUFFICE FOR TOILETRY DUTY AND DRYING OFF OF FEET. BTW: YOU SHOULD ADD IN SOME ANTI-FUNGAL FOOT/CROTCH POWDER TO YOUR LIST (GOOD TO APPLY TO RECENTLY TOWELED PARTS OF THE BODY).

Smoke grenades (4) – LOSE ‘EM. I DON’T EVEN CARRY FOUR SMOKE GRENADES IN COMBAT. EXCESSIVE WEIGHT FOR YOUR PURPOSES AND ONLY IMAGINARY RETURN ON USEFULNESS.

Bic lighters (10) – 2 IS ENOUGH…NOT 10.

Water (4) – Fragile bottles, four times the chance for one of them to leak onto your sleeping bag. USE 1 QUART OR 1 LITER CANTEENS OR NALGENE BOTTLES. LITTLE PLASTIC 7-11 DRINKING BOTTLES WILL BREAK JUST WHEN YOU REALLY DO NEED THEM OR NEED TO REFILL THEM MULTIPLE TIMES. TRUST ME. ALTERNATIVELY, GET EVERYONE 3-LITER CAMELBACK-TYPE HYDRATION BLADDERS.

SCAR – YOU APPARENTLY ALREADY OWN ONE. IF YOU WENT AR-15 FOR THE OTHER THREE, YOU COULD APPLY THE MONEY SAVED TO BUY DECENT BACKPACKS, TENTS, SLEEPING BAGS, AND BIVY SACKS. NOT TO MENTION HIKING BOOTS AND QUALITY WHITE GAS BACKPACKER STOVE (LIKE MSR MULTI-FUEL WHISPERLITES). ALSO WHITE COMBAT LIGHT AND MOUNTS FOR EACH RIFLE. FOR THE SHORT DURATION, 3 X MAGAZINES CARRIED SCENARIO YOU’VE DESCRIBED, WEAPONS COMMONALITY IS IRRELEVENT.

Hope this helps.
 
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If you just got a usgi no-rip poncho, you're set for shelter for 9 months out of the year if you know how to use it. Support it right with cord and sticks and it'll make a pretty decent shelter.

I never thought of that use for a gas mask. But from what I know, firefighters carry oxygen tanks because there isn't enough oxygen to support a breathing human. I'm not sure a gas mask would help that very much, but it might.
 
Oh yeah, you never mentioned who the other packs were for.

I do agree with the red filters. Being completely blind as soon as you cut off your light sucks.
 
Chindo has a lot of good points. I'm going to take what is probably an unpopular position and say unless you are very experienced and in good shape you would be better off turning yourself into a refugee center than striking off on your own. Particularly in high desert.
 
Zak Says
That's a lot of stuff. As I get older, I place more emphasis on resourcefulness, improvisation, skills, and problem solving than gear, equipment, and stuff.

Zak, I am with you on this. The only other thing I would add to your list would be associations and collaboration. I like the woods and waters, so... I know who the fellow trappers, reloaders, survivor types and farmers are in my area.

Our country was built on communities working together and forming something bigger than the sum of our parts. If we ever were in the situation where we needed to start over as a nation, we will not be able to do it alone and I would prefer to be a part of re-establishing civilization than one of those retreating from it.

A group of neighbors pooling resources, helping others will lead to a larger group, then a community.

I read somewhere that in the olden days people survived for weeks, months and years with nothing but the clothes on their backs... do you know how to tan a hide? Do you know how to bowhunt with a long bow?

As many others have stated, there is more to surviving than having a SBR and smoke grenades (Unless you are in level 3 of COD.....)
 
Our country was built on communities working together and forming something bigger than the sum of our parts. If we ever were in the situation where we needed to start over as a nation, we will not be able to do it alone and I would prefer to be a part of re-establishing civilization than one of those retreating from it.

A group of neighbors pooling resources, helping others will lead to a larger group, then a community.

This. Exactly.
 
Here's a little more minimalist approach ... just for kicks:

Day Pack with 2L Water Bladder
Water Purification Tablets
Compass
Map
Emergency Bivvy
Tinder Quick
Waterproof Matches & Striker
Knife/Multi-tool
Lightweight Thermal Top & Bottoms
Signal Mirror
One-day Supply of Food (I like Clif Bars as they're relatively high in protein)
Polar Fleece Beanie or Balaclava
Breathable Rain Jacket & Pants
Sunglasses
Sunscreen
Bug Repellent
Thinsulate Gloves
Whistle
Wool Socks
Small First Aid Kit
Flashlight or Headlamp
Pistol with Spare Magazine

Typically, this is what I would take on an overnight hike, but one could certainly survive with these supplies for several days - even with only one day's food. All in, my skin-out weight isn't more than 20 lbs, including the pistol and spare magazine of ammo.

Just in the last couple days a woman was found who had injured her ankle hiking in the Santa Cruz mountains. She was stranded for six days with no food and pretty much just the clothing on her back and a plastic baggie to capture water. She was suffering from a bit of hypothermia, but other than that just fine.

I recently bought several "Altoid" tins. They've never been used so they're bare metal (meaning they could act as a signal mirror). I'm challenging myself to do an overnight with just the contents of the tin and what I can carry in my pockets or on my belt.

Here's what's in the tin:

6 Waterproof Matches with Half a Striker
6 Tinder Quick Pellets
Photon Microlight II
3"X12" Ziplock Bag for Water
4 Water Purification Tablets
25' Braided Fishing Line
1 Antibiotic Ointment Packet
1 Steri Pad
4 Butterfly Bandages
ITW Survival Whistle
Pocket Straight Razor
2 Aspirin
2 Ibuprofen

On my person or in my pockets will be the following:

Emergency Bivvy
Space Blanket
Multi-tool
2 Clif Bars
Sunglasses
Sunscreen
Bug Spray

We'll see how it goes. :)
 
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Zak Smith said:
As I get older, I place more emphasis on resourcefulness, improvisation, skills, and problem solving than gear, equipment, and stuff.

But Cheaper Than Dirt doesn't sell resourcefulness or skills. :D
 
Couple candy bars, bottled water, and a deck of cards and/or AM/FM radio will get through 3 days.

Nice pack, though.
 
Sterno cans (6) – Kinda pointless without the chafing dish, don’t you think?
great for easy, clean heat. light weight, and also, i do have a little heating stand there. lots better than having to play boyscout by gathering kindling every time i need some heat.

I have to step in on this one. Each sterno can is 1/2lb (8 oz), so you've got 3 LBS of extra gear. That's a friggin' TON of weight to a backpacker, especially for something so obviously geared towards luxury. If you need to cook something, a tin-can alcohol stove will serve you better for FAR less weight than sterno. More fuel for the same weight, longer cook times for the same fuel, more BTUs for the same time.

But, if you're relying on a can of jellied alcohol to keep you warm in the woods, you're going to be in for a whole lot of trouble if you find yourself in a survival situation. Mindset, SKILLSET, toolset. In that order. You need to get out and spend some time backpacking and living in the woods. Learn to build a fire; there's nothing "playing boy scout" about it (though I was one and HIGHLY resent that remark), it's pretty damned necessary for surviving. A can of sterno is never going to keep you warm like a fire will, and it's way too much weight to be justifiable as a fire starter (and not even a good fire starter at that). I've never seen or heard of an experienced backpacker doing anything other than trying to make his/her pack weigh less and still be effective, and it looks like you're getting a lot of good advice from experienced outdoors people here. It's worth considering. At the very least, take it out for a weekend or week and see what you don't use. If you don't use it, it's just dead weight.
 
I made the super light stove in my kit out of a beer can, it uses any liquid that will burn except auto gas. It works well with Heet or gas tank alcohol. Takes less than 5 minutes to make. Here are a cpl pics. I have instructions how to make if anyone is interested, just PM me your email addy.

1oz of fuel burns about 14 minutes, more than enough for hot liquid and some sort of a meal.

You need a soda/beer can (for a larger stove use a 20-24oz can) sharp scissors, scotch tape (no it will not melt or burn away), leather plier punch or a small diameter paper punch and a 1/4" drift pin punch. 5-10 minutes of time, you just saved yourself $80 for a alcohol stove.
Hey, that's pretty cool. Can you elaborate a little more on how that works? I'm not quite understanding how the fuel gets to the holes you've punched around the base.

I'd like to make one to go camping with just to piss off my freinds with the $80 stoves.
 
I'm questoning the rifle part but hey, its your kit.
now if I was building more kits with a rifle, the rifle would be a su-16(can be folded in half, can carry 2 30 rnd mags in the gun weighs lighter than a standard ar-15 and you can buy about 4 keltecs for the price of the scar) and not the scar for price reasons.

maybe I'm missing something but I see no can opener....

Doesn't Kel-Tec make a version of that rifle which uses Glock mags? That'd make things easier.

Also, on another note, all of those supplies and the fancy rifle are going to make you a target. To paraphrase what the warden said in the movie Law Abiding Citizen, "In here it's about the have nots. I wouldn't want to be the only have." This applies to a true apocalypse-type survival situation where even the most mellow of men will gladly off you for less than a 2400$ rifle.
 
Japanese soldiers fought in the worst conditions imaginable with a couple handfuls of rice for weeks, and a few dozen rounds of ammo. That's more gear then every solider in WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, and probably today carry's. What they heck are you planning to get involved in that's larger than say Guadalcanal, Kursk, Stalingrad, and Verdun?

What the heck are you going to do with that stuff?
 
fiat: it is just basic fluid/gas mechanics. The alcohol when lit in the center heats up the surface of the alcohol and stove. The alcohol turns to gas, the alcohol gas expands and takes the least point of resistance down through the holes because the flame is a hard point of resistance, the least point which are the holes in the bottom inside wall. The gas is forced through the small holes around the top outside of the can and is lit by the open flame in the center. You can actually use whiskey (beer does not have enough alcohol) (Plus beer and whiskey have much better uses, like drinking), Everclear is fantastic, rubbing alcohol, dry gas, brake fluid and denatured alcohol. I have even used gelled alcohol like hand sanitizer (although it burns kind of funky). DO NOT use auto gas as it is possible for the whole thing to blow up. I have used kerosene etc.

Only use 1oz of fluid as the dynamics change if filled to the top and will be hard to keep lit.

ALSO DO NOT ADD FUEL WHILE LIT OR HOT, ALLOW TO burn out and COOL DOWN (30 SECONDS) BEFORE ADDING MORE FUEL and relighting.

JUST SEND ME A PM WITH YOUR EMAIL FOR THE PLANS, TAKES LESS THAN 10 MINUTES TO MAKE.
 
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lots of good advice - but there also seems like a lot of people are really unclear on the concept here.


let me reiterate again, this is not a backpacking trip i am going on. :banghead: this is a general supply cache that happens to be kept in a backpack.


geesh, give me a break...i mean, pretend, for some really weird reason some guy came up to you and said "hey, here's $10K - go make backup full of supplies for an emergency situation, like katrina, or a plague or dirty bomb or whatever." -- you got $10K - what would you put in it?
 
The problem lies in the wording of the thread, he should have just stated this was his disaster/survival kit, and asked for suggestions as to what to change/add. As it stands it looks like a show off thread featuring $4000 worth of stuff. So I see why all the content choices are being scrutinized.
 
You should add a pair of good, broken-in, hiking boots or shoes. You need only to take a few minutes to change into them prior to begining your trek.

In reality, how many people go about their day, working, shopping, ect.., wearing a pair of combat boots or a shabby looking pair of Timberlands.

From experince I can say that walking a few miles down a muddy dirt road (insert darkness, rain and/or sleet) in loafers, tennis shoes, or cowboy boots is pure misery.
 
For $10 grand... I would make my same well defined kit as I stated early in this thread for under $1 grand and turn the rest of the cash into small individual valued GOLD-SILVER, booze, ciggs, coffee, salt, ammo, medical items, sugar & batteries for barter & trade. I would keep them stashed in and around my cabin in PA. Soon and I mean very soon the paper US Dollar is going to be worth nothing. Heck, in 2012 we all become the NAU (North American Union) and the money will be called the Amero and our current money will be exchanged for that money. Right now the exchange rate is valued at $0.53 cents on the dollar. This converges USA - Mex - Canada. This follows the likes of the EU system. This has been signed, ratified and set in place under Bush II. Check it out on the web. There will be NO illegals except from other contenents. TIME is NOW to prepare for that, I have, will YOU?.
 
For $10 grand... I would make my same well defined kit as I stated early in this thread for under $1 grand

I actually liked most of what you had to say. You've spent a little time on the trail, as have a couple others. But, I wouldn't come in under 1k. The reason I know I wouldn't... I spend the $$$ on a good bag. The bag and pack would cost me $600 at least. Given a choice (10k of someone else's money) I'm taking a Gregory or something comparable. Synthetic bag too, it's wet and rainy here.

Chindo, I'd go with multiple bottles personally (and a bladder). 4 bottles means that I have to rupture, have stolen, puncture, burn by the campfire, or lose all 4 to lose my capacity to carry water. Otherwise I thought your post was spot on.

let me reiterate again, this is not a backpacking trip i am going on. this is a general supply cache that happens to be kept in a backpack.

I'm probably in that category of people who do not get it.

"if/when something really bad happens like a major disaster and i have to bail out of my house for some unknown number of days" kit.

You made the reference to Katrina, how are you going to leave or get around? I can tell you from experience if you want to know what it's like. But, look at what the driving conditions were like with several days notice, imagine that ( or a dirty bomb or whatever) hitting with little or no warning. :what: Walking sounds like the order of the day.

If I had 10k, I'd put most of what those others guys said but with some minor variations.

Add to the first aid kit - Mole Skin and BC powder
Whisperlite Intl Fuel stove or similar.
Micro filter, purification tablets, Iodine.
Brazilian Hammock or Bivy.
DEET, Sunscreen, and Aloe.
Headlamp and Flashlight.
Sheath Knife, multi-tool, Folding knife, and lexan spoon and fork.
Depending on climate would dictate a fleece bag liner or not.
Wicking socks to go under other socks in cold weather.
Silk thermals.
Appropriate clothing (no cotton except some socks and undies).
A book.

That's either an addition or change to what the others said. Whatever else I might forget, a sleeping bag and way to light a fire will NOT be them.
 
This is a very valuable and intersting discussion topic. It is something that we all really should consider for ourselves and our own situations and then research and discuss in the appropriate places.

Unfortunately, THR is not a survival site. Our S&T forum is dedicated to self-defense -- the use of situational awareness, personal defensive tactics, and firearms or other weapons in the moment of dire need. The scope of our discussion does not extend far enough to cover long-term planning, escape & evasion, food prep/storage, etc.

From the rules sticky above:

4) We don't do TEOTWAWKI/SHTF discussions. Try Frugal Squirrel's or Survivalblog.com for that.
 
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