THE 410 SLUG????
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NIGHTLORD40K
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Moose? No.
White tail at reasonable ranges, why not?
White tail at reasonable ranges, why not?
It's legal in Indiana, just a bit more power than a .38Special, but not quite as much as a.357Magnum. Pretty much an inside 40-50 yard shot is the most I would ever be comfortable with on a whitetail deer. Very much on the weak end of the spectrum. So many other more suitable calibers and gauges are legal now in Indiana that weren't available to legally use 15 years ago.
tactikel
Member
A .410 slug is 120 grain at 1775 fps. Ideal? No. But 75 yards and under it will take a deer with a good shot.
A lot of states do not allow 410 slugs for big game hunting, to include deer. Most commercially available 410 lugs only weigh 1/4 ounce with equals 109.375 grains. Remington uses an even lighter slug in their 410 slug shells, they use a 1/5 ounce which is equal to 87.5 grains.
Yes a 410 slug will work at pistol distances for deer. But I would not want to push it much past 75 yards.
That being said, while illegal to use for deer hunting in Missouri, I have used 410 slugs for raccoon hunting in the past. The 410 slugs will knock a raccoon out of a tree way better than 22LR or 22WMR will.
Yes a 410 slug will work at pistol distances for deer. But I would not want to push it much past 75 yards.
That being said, while illegal to use for deer hunting in Missouri, I have used 410 slugs for raccoon hunting in the past. The 410 slugs will knock a raccoon out of a tree way better than 22LR or 22WMR will.
DeepSouth
Random Guy
Should it be legal?
Imo, yes.
Would I do it, or recommend anyone else?
Imo, no.
Imo, yes.
Would I do it, or recommend anyone else?
Imo, no.
troy fairweather
Member
They got to have a bit more power then a 357 mag at least a pistol, I can't remember what speed a 410 slug moves tho. Inside 50-75 yards on deer I think they would work fine.
Old Hobo
Member
From the ballistics tables I've seen, the .410 slug is equivalent to the .357 hollow point.
If one is thinking non-12guage, then I'd imagine the 20 gauge to be a much superior choice. With a rifled slug barrel, the 20 gauge is a fine white-tail deer round. Many adult hunters use this to put meat on the supper table. My Remington 20 ga w/slug barrel is astonishingly accurate with sabot slugs. At short ranges, this is more than sufficient. The 12 gauge slugs have been used to drop heavy game and even dangerous game.
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If one is thinking non-12guage, then I'd imagine the 20 gauge to be a much superior choice. With a rifled slug barrel, the 20 gauge is a fine white-tail deer round. Many adult hunters use this to put meat on the supper table. My Remington 20 ga w/slug barrel is astonishingly accurate with sabot slugs. At short ranges, this is more than sufficient. The 12 gauge slugs have been used to drop heavy game and even dangerous game.
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Armored farmer
Member
One problem with slugs in .410 is that the majority of barrels in that caliber are full choked.
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
I found it eye-opening when I saw an Alaska State trooper trade her AR for a 12 gauge slug gun when they had to dispatch an aggressive bear.
I use to use 410 slugs for raccoons and such in my dad's old Montgomery Ward Western Field single shot with an extra tight full choke and in my Mossberg 500 with full choke without any issues. Now that I have an 18" cylinder bore barrel for the Model 500, I might have to see how slugs do out if it compared to the full choke barrel.
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
Good luck finding ANY .410 slugs (or any .410 shells at all) now, of course.
That is why I have been reloading my own 410 shells since 1996. Along with bird shot shells, I also reload my own 5 pellet 000 buckshot shells.
I made 1 or 2 threads about how the 3" 5 pellet 000 buckshot did out of both my Mossberg 500 and Mossberg Shockwave.
It looks like I will have to wait for slugs to come back in stock or try reloading my own.
And for those that are considering the Hornady Critical Defense Triple Defense 410 shells, don't waste your money to shoot these out of a smooth bore shotgun. For one, Hornady strongly recommends NOT shooting these shells through a full choke since they use a copper .41 ballistic tip slug. I tried them in my Shockwave with the 14" cylinder bore barrel and the 500 with an 18" cylinder bore barrel and the pattern was horrible in both using the Hornady Triple Defense shells. I sure would not use them for hunting.
I evidently did not save any target photos of the Triple Defense rounds. But they pattered worse than the Winchester PDX-1 shells and neither patterned as well as the 000 buckshot loads at 7, 10, or 15 yards.
mcb
Member
And you guys only thought I was only obsessed with moonclips. Back before I moved to the south I grew up hunting in Ohio and when I discovered 410 slugs were legal for deer in Ohio (an about half the states of the union) and when Winchester came out with the Winchester 9410 I went to great length to find the best 410 slug and for several years hunted nearly everything with that 410 shotgun. I had a short lived website that focused on my research on 410 slugs but I took it down a few years ago. (now defunct and the domain owned by someone else: www.mcb-homis.com).
I could (did) write pages but I won't here if I can help it. If there is something specific I can go into details I still have the contents of my web page saved locally.
My 410 slug guns.
Top: Steven 38B 3-inch 410. It is the ugliest and cheapest gun I own, someone's newbie wood burning project I bough off the used gun rack at Gander Mountain ($85) I bought it to make a slug gun out of it. I cut about 2-inches off the length of the barrel to remove the full choke and crowned it more like a rifle. I made sight bases for it and use some Truglo ghost rings sights on it.
Bottom: Winchester 9410 2.5-inch 410, the 2002 version with the ugly cross bolt safety and fixed choke. The most fun shotgun I own. The choke was unusually as it measures cylinder bore but has a wad retardant etched ring near the muzzle and with the right shot ammo (Win AA target loads 8.5 shot was a good one) will pattern improved cylinder or slightly tighter. But the cylinder bore works really well with slugs.
My current collection of 410 ammo. Most of which is 410 slugs of one variety or another. I did a lot of reloading of 410 slugs too, using an old open source internal ballistic program called Numerical Advanced Internal Ballistic Model (NABM) to work up loads from scratch since there is vanishing little reloading data for 410 slugs, especially back when I was doing it. Ballistic Products now has a small set of data if you're looking.
The Brenneke Silver Slugs where always the best performers from a terminal point of view. They were the heaviest at 114 gr and were made of a fairly hard lead alloy. When I first started hunting with my Win 9410 Brenneke did not make a 2.5-inch slug so I was taking Brenneke slugs, cutting off the roll crimp removing the slug and a 1/2 spacer under the slug, cutting the case down to 2.5 inch and reassembling without the spacer and re-roll crimping them. In my 24-inch Win 9410 I was pushing the 114 gr slug at 2000 fps resulting in a shade over 1000 ft-lbs of muzzle energy. Most other commercial slugs where lighter (87 gr - 109 gr) and were in the the 600-750 ft-lbs energy levels.
That said I always got the best accuracy in my guns from the good old Remington Slugs but they were one of the lightest slugs and were pure lead so very fragile on impact.
My first buck taken with my 9410 using Remington sluggers. He was an old 8-point buck weighed about 160 lbs live weight. Slug when through a rib shattering it going in, nice hole through both lungs and heart and then fragment found logged in the far ribs
This was my second buck, a larger deer, 10-pts and ~180 lbs live weight. Taken with Brennake slugs. The slug that brought him down went through his spine and still exited, it was a very exciting encounter at very close range.
My (experienced) opinion on hunting deer with them: 410 slugs are marginal for deer hunting, if you are going to hunt deer with them you need to be willing to do the work to find a gun that will shoot them accurately and be willing to deal with their very short effective range. 410 slugs bleed velocity/energy fast going down range, most 410 slugs have lost half their kinetic energy within 50 yards. They are very much like hunting with a good crossbow and iron sighted revolver as far as range and accuracy. But if you are willing to live within their meager capabilities they are a fun challenge to use.
-rambling as usual.
I could (did) write pages but I won't here if I can help it. If there is something specific I can go into details I still have the contents of my web page saved locally.
My 410 slug guns.
Top: Steven 38B 3-inch 410. It is the ugliest and cheapest gun I own, someone's newbie wood burning project I bough off the used gun rack at Gander Mountain ($85) I bought it to make a slug gun out of it. I cut about 2-inches off the length of the barrel to remove the full choke and crowned it more like a rifle. I made sight bases for it and use some Truglo ghost rings sights on it.
Bottom: Winchester 9410 2.5-inch 410, the 2002 version with the ugly cross bolt safety and fixed choke. The most fun shotgun I own. The choke was unusually as it measures cylinder bore but has a wad retardant etched ring near the muzzle and with the right shot ammo (Win AA target loads 8.5 shot was a good one) will pattern improved cylinder or slightly tighter. But the cylinder bore works really well with slugs.
My current collection of 410 ammo. Most of which is 410 slugs of one variety or another. I did a lot of reloading of 410 slugs too, using an old open source internal ballistic program called Numerical Advanced Internal Ballistic Model (NABM) to work up loads from scratch since there is vanishing little reloading data for 410 slugs, especially back when I was doing it. Ballistic Products now has a small set of data if you're looking.
The Brenneke Silver Slugs where always the best performers from a terminal point of view. They were the heaviest at 114 gr and were made of a fairly hard lead alloy. When I first started hunting with my Win 9410 Brenneke did not make a 2.5-inch slug so I was taking Brenneke slugs, cutting off the roll crimp removing the slug and a 1/2 spacer under the slug, cutting the case down to 2.5 inch and reassembling without the spacer and re-roll crimping them. In my 24-inch Win 9410 I was pushing the 114 gr slug at 2000 fps resulting in a shade over 1000 ft-lbs of muzzle energy. Most other commercial slugs where lighter (87 gr - 109 gr) and were in the the 600-750 ft-lbs energy levels.
That said I always got the best accuracy in my guns from the good old Remington Slugs but they were one of the lightest slugs and were pure lead so very fragile on impact.
My first buck taken with my 9410 using Remington sluggers. He was an old 8-point buck weighed about 160 lbs live weight. Slug when through a rib shattering it going in, nice hole through both lungs and heart and then fragment found logged in the far ribs
This was my second buck, a larger deer, 10-pts and ~180 lbs live weight. Taken with Brennake slugs. The slug that brought him down went through his spine and still exited, it was a very exciting encounter at very close range.
My (experienced) opinion on hunting deer with them: 410 slugs are marginal for deer hunting, if you are going to hunt deer with them you need to be willing to do the work to find a gun that will shoot them accurately and be willing to deal with their very short effective range. 410 slugs bleed velocity/energy fast going down range, most 410 slugs have lost half their kinetic energy within 50 yards. They are very much like hunting with a good crossbow and iron sighted revolver as far as range and accuracy. But if you are willing to live within their meager capabilities they are a fun challenge to use.
-rambling as usual.
I'm not going to try to ruffle feathers but using the muzzle energy/velocity figures is kind of funny. Slugs shed velocity and energy faster than JLo sheds boyfriends.
I, personally, won't shoot deer with the 410 but won't disparage those who do.
In the words of Bob Hagel, or some other learned authority, "Don't use a cartridge that will work if everything is perfect. Use one that will work if everything isnt".
My minimum, for our Illinois deer, is a 20 GA Accutip.
Or my 44 mag Super.
Just my opinion. No offense.
I, personally, won't shoot deer with the 410 but won't disparage those who do.
In the words of Bob Hagel, or some other learned authority, "Don't use a cartridge that will work if everything is perfect. Use one that will work if everything isnt".
My minimum, for our Illinois deer, is a 20 GA Accutip.
Or my 44 mag Super.
Just my opinion. No offense.
Even though Missouri finally changed their regulations and do allow 410 slugs, I would not use them for deer. I also don't feel comfortable using .223 for deer either. I know that both are used successfully for deer all of the time.But that is me. Now 410 slugs have worked well for me hunting smaller animals.
mcb
Member
I tried 410 slugs on squirrel and the meat loss was dramatic, I stuck with my favorite copper plated #8.5 or #7.5 shot for small game I eat. Now that I am living in the south I really should try 410 slugs on armadillos since I don't eat those. But I have been having a lot of fun shooting the armadillos with my suppressed 300 BO and subsonic ammo.
I definitely would not use a 410 slug on squirrels. I don't even like shooting them with my 17m2 unless I can get a good head shot. And I bet a 410 slug will roll an armadillo pretty good. I know they worked well for me to knock raccoons out of trees in the past.
mcb
Member
I only did it once to try. It made a mess for sure. Shot shell or 22 LR for all my squirrel hunting now. I did kill one raccoon with 410 buckshot. The S&B with three pellets of #000. It work very well.
WestKentucky
Member
When I was 11 or 12 I hunted in the thick woods with a 410 single shot. I never had a deer pass by, but a pack of coyotes came through. The slug went through the upper back of one and through the gut of another. That was at 25 yards give or take. I know it’s not apples to oranges, but it seems that if it will double on coyotes then it should single on a whitetail just fine.
I do admit though, neither of those critters hung around for me to inspect the damage. I doubt a 410 will ever be DRT other than the spine or head shot and those are way too risky to attempt with a slug.
I do admit though, neither of those critters hung around for me to inspect the damage. I doubt a 410 will ever be DRT other than the spine or head shot and those are way too risky to attempt with a slug.
To be honest, it has been a long time since I shot any slugs out of my 410's. The last were the Hornady Critical Defense Triple Defense loads, which I was not impressed by and won't use again. I only shot the Hornady Triple Defense loads to test what worked best out of my Mossberg Shockwave. I'll stick to my 3" 5 pellet 000 buckshot loads in the Shockwave.
Years ago I used 410 slugs for raccoon hunting and general varmint hunting and they worked great for that.
I did the same except with my SMLE No 1 Mk III in 303 caliber, same results on the tree rat. For factory 2 1/2" buckshot loads, the S&B and Federal loads work well. I find that 000 buck does a lot better out of a cylinder bore choke than it does out of a full choke. Now 00 buckshot does better in a full choke then it does out of a cylinder bore choke.
Years ago I used 410 slugs for raccoon hunting and general varmint hunting and they worked great for that.
I did the same except with my SMLE No 1 Mk III in 303 caliber, same results on the tree rat. For factory 2 1/2" buckshot loads, the S&B and Federal loads work well. I find that 000 buck does a lot better out of a cylinder bore choke than it does out of a full choke. Now 00 buckshot does better in a full choke then it does out of a cylinder bore choke.
Old Hobo
Member
Big bear = very, very thick meat and bones
Takes a projectile with a whole lot of mass to retain the energy to dig through all of that meat and bone.
Lightweight projectiles dump their energy before getting into the boiler-works (heart & lungs).
Reminds me of a decades-old story of two U.S. airmen attacked by a brown bear up Alaska way. The two men emptied their M1 Garands (i.e. 30-06 FMJs) into the bear. Both men were killed by that bear. The bear partially buried one airman so that it could come back for a future meal. The bear died later on, sure; yet, it was able to keep its appetite immediately after being shot with all of those rounds.
Monsters need cannons to kill them.
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DustyGmt
Member
Are you talking about the PDX1's shotshells patterning poorly in general, or just .410 PDX1's?
I have some of those buck and ball PDX1's in 12ga and can't make up my mind about whether they are kind of gimmicky. They seem to be a very good close range (10 yards or less) round in my 12ga but I didn't care for the pattern out to 25 yards but they might not even be designed to perform well at that range....
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