The 8mm verses other rounds for a bolt action. Mauser questions.

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Mudcat Stew

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I have heard of people getting Mausers and "rechambering" (dunno if that is the right word) them for other rounds. Perhaps this is simply for preference sake.

I read this article. http://www.chuckhawks.com/forgotten_8x57.htm

The thing I noticed was most in the article was this.
  • .30-30, 170 grain - 2200 fps / 1827 ft. lbs. (standard American loadings)
  • 8MM Mauser, 170 grain - 2360 fps / 2102 ft. lbs. (standard American loadings)
  • .308 Win., 150 grain - 2820 fps / 2648 ft. lbs. (standard American loadings)
  • 8MM Mauser, 150 grain - 2880 fps / 2762 ft. lbs. (Stars & Stripes)
  • .308 Win., 180 grain - 2620 fps / 2743 ft. lbs. (standard American loadings)
  • 8MM Mauser, 196 grain - 2592 fps / 2924 ft. lbs. (Sellier & Bellot)
  • .30-06, 180 grain - 2700 fps / 2915 ft. lbs. (Federal Premium, Barnes-X)
  • 8MM Mauser, 180 grain - 2728 fps / 2974 ft. lbs. (Stars & Stripes, Barnes-X)
Click to expand...

To me it sounds like the 8mm seems to be a fairly versatile round. I don't know how it tracks out in a ballistic sense, though I would think it would shoot fairly flat.

The article refers that Mauser used was "sporterized". I dunno what all goes into sporterizing a Mauser. Is it just a cut down and new stock.. or do they put a new barrel on it?

I have been thinking about trying to pick one up. If I do, I want to get it on the cheap, because I am a tightwad.

Is the 8mm a bad round comparatively to other rounds for whitetail?
I am wondering how the stock rifles have performed for any who have shot them?
Im a DIY sort of fellow, and would be curious to know what any other DIY sort of folks have dealt with in getting one of these weapons up to snuff.
Are their bad Mausers on the market that should be steered away from?

I know it's a lot a of questions, don't feel compelled to answer them all. I am basically wondering if the 8mm is a good round, how much trouble is involved dealing with an inexpensive Mauser and if there is a difference in Mausers. I have seen some offered from a number of countries and don't know what to make of that.

Your thoughts are appreciated.

Respectfully submitted,

Mudcat
 
8mm Mauser is a great "all-purpose" round. USA made ammo is loaded to lower pressure due to a slight increase in bore size over the course of the 8mm's existance. European loadings are generally loaded to its true potential. It would perform wonderfully on whitetail using SP's. Check over at Mauser Central. That is pretty much ALL they talk about. Lots of do-it-yourselfers over there too.
 
I wish I could be more scientific and tell you what bullet made what hole....but I can't. Regardless these are two targets that we were shooting at a couple of weeks ago at about 75 yards. We had some Garand military thingy in 30-06, my Husqvarna in 8x57, my Marlin 336C in 30-30 and something else in .308. The yellow plate was 5/16" mild steel, and the smaller one was 5/8" aluminum...fwiw. My guess is the 30-06 is the one which made the big holes. But what do I know.....:D


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I have a sporterized and several original military Mausers in 8mm. Love them all. The sporterized ones can be made more accurate due to free-floating the barrel, but some of my military Mausers are equally accurate, but then again I'm not a great shot. The round is very powerful and actually overkill for deer. I say get a military Mauser with a good bore and see how you like it. They can be had for relatively cheap. If you like it, you can get a Boyd's replacement sporter stock later, glass bed it, free-float the barrel, scope it, etc. and have yourself a nice hunting gun. if you keep the barrel original (don't cut it and don't remove the sights) and keep the military stock, you can swap back and forth between them as you desire.
 
The 8mm is a great hunting round, especially if you handload. I had a M48 Yugo Mauser (cost $130). Once cleaned up it easily shot 3 MOA with the issue sights. Improved sights (a peep or scope) would certainly shrink the groups. For medium to large game at reasonable ranges it will do a fine job.
 
The deer I've shot with an 8x57 are just as dead as anything else I've shot with anything else. First deer I ever killed I did with a 1905-dated Gew98 Mauser in full military trim, iron sights, and made a perfect heart-lungs shot. It fell over stone dead. .02 difference in diameter between an 8mm and a .30-cal, and maybe a hundred feet per second faster or slower, is not going to matter.
 
8mm is the European equal of 30-06. A lot of US ammo is 'downloaded' so as not to blow up pre WW! rifles.

Sporterizing of 98k's often just meant re-stocking them.

There are numerous solid 8mm actions and rifles available on the market today at bargain prices.

Look for Whitworth, FN & Husqvarna in commercial guns. Brno-made unissued 98k's go for less than German marked ones. Yugo surplus military rifles are still avaialble though prices have gone up in recent years.

A lot of 98k's came home in duffle bags and had the stocks cut down. If you aren't looking to restore them to military glory thats no big deal.

Example of a 'duffle cut' sporterized 98K:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=47408&d=1162776560
 
MCStew, the Mauser 98 action is the basis for just about every modern bolt rifle action: Many are outright copies. The Mauser action is to bolt rifles what the Browning designed tilt breech locking mechanism of the 1911 is to semi-auto pistols. If I understand correctly many of the sporters that were re-barreled in different calibers here in the US were done for more available, and more popular American calibers. Another reason was that post WWII surplus Mausers from various countries were so cheap you could buy the whole rifle, keep the action, and throw everything else away for less money than buying almost any other rifle action.

Others have covered most of your other questions, so I'll touch on reloading for a bit below.

Currently, reloading presses & components are probably as inexpensive, high quality, and readily available than ever before. 8mm bullets aren't as plentiful as 30 caliber bullets, but there are still many to choose from. Likewise on the brass. Midway has a full Lee single stage reloading press kit on sale for $90 right now. RCBS 8mm Mauser dies run $30; Lee dies as low as $15. Since you like do it yourself stuff there's no reason not to get a press, and have at it. You can use each piece of brass 4 or 5 times. Once you have the press & dies the rest (brass, bullets, primers & powder) is pretty cheap. You can turn out better ammo than the factory, and load it however you want (within safe published load data of course) for a fraction of the price of factory ammo.
 
Last two deer seasons I've used a WWII sporterized bring back. I tweaked it - added a Timney, bedded the action, floated the barrel. Worked up a good NBT handload that zips along around 2700 fps and is scary-accurate. Used it to fill deer tags the last two years. 8mm will do everything an 06 will and maybe more.
 
8 mm mauser is relegated to low pressue loadings . It s popularity is muted here because its what the Germans used in WW 2 . But it was the same cartridge that was dreaded so much by our troops in the European campaign. The many MG 42 gun implacements during the Normandy landings that resulted in many Allied casualities were results of 8 mm mauser rounds. The round itself is devastating especially with the 196 gr spitzer bullets.
 
7.62X54R, 303 British, 8mm Mauser, 30-06 are just about twins unless you get anal about the differences. All are good game gett'ers and were excellent military cartridges in their day. You smack a deer with any of them and the critter won't notice any difference.
 
I previously owned a Turkish 8mm Mauser rifle. I currently own a 30-06 for hunting. They are similar cartridges ballistically. 8mm is more difficult to find on store shelves but is available. Sellier and Bellot produces 8mm closer to European loadings. It can be found at Cabelas. Federal produces 8mm for hunting and Nosler makes fantastic 8mm bullets for reloaders/hunters. On the high end of ammo, Nosler loads 8x57 in their custom ammunition division but it is upwards of $40-60 per box of 20.

The Mausers are great rifles and make excellent sporterizing platforms. The only downside I can see is that unless you are going to shoot it "as is," things can get expensive quickly. I would suggest finding a Mauser with the bolt already turned down rather than a straight bolt (unless you are planning on hunting with open sights). A professional bolt turn down can run $70-$100. The military trigger works fine but leaves something to be desired for more discerning shooters. The Timney trigger is a great option but you add another $40-$150 to the rifle cost. Normally when sporterizing a rifle, the stock gets changed out for a lighter/better ergonomic design. These can run anywhere from $60-$160.

The Mauser rifle is a great, solid platform to work with. It has a proven action design with one of the best extractor systems ever made. I have never worked on a customer's Mauser that was broken or not working properly. Normally it has been for a customization option or cleaning only. If you like to tinker and work on one custom feature at a time, you will end up with a fantastic rifle in the end. If you want to take on an entire sporterizing project at once, it can add up fast. Just my $0.02.
 
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Here's my Husqy in 8mm. She's a 1949 model #640. I've only run some 196g's 1950's Yugo corrosive thru her so far (zero problems if you can wash her down & oil her by the end of the day) and she's a real blast to shoot and packs some punch. Found her on Gun Broker a few months back and with the scope, a case, the sling and swivels, I still have less than $380.00 in her......:D


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Thanks Everyone for your input!!

Reading your posts has gotten me rather excited about the 8mm.

Now all I have to do is find a good deal on one and get started.

@El Mariachi Beautiful gun. Thanks for the images.

As to replacing the stock, I have access to a fairly extensive wood shop and I have a rack full of some exotic hardwoods that I use to build guitars with, so I may take a stab at making a stock. I have liked the look of Weatherby stocks, and may try to create a "knockoff"... but who knows.

When I get one and get started, I may post again in the gunsmith section.

All the best,

Mudcat
 
Fwiw, I've slowly but surely been working on a custom stock for my daughter's Marlin 795. Making it out of some pretty cherry I had laying around and am gonna try my hand at in-letting some pink abalone shell pieces in it. Fun project......
 
There are some pros and cons.

Pros:
--Sporter or sporterized 8x57JS are easy to find and usually bargain priced.
--The round hits hard and when loaded to its proper pressure is equal to most .30'06 loads.
--The '98 Mauser action it's typically fired from is arguably the greatest bolt action ever designed.

Cons--
--The domestic production 8x57JS is absurdly low pressure due to outdated SAAMI specs
--Handloading runs into the problem of trying to use 8mm bullets designed for the rem mag at higher velocities. Best results are with imported bullets designed for the Mauser's velocities.

I would not recommend getting a military Mauser and cutting it. Some of them are worth a lot of money intact, but nothing once the damage is done. And there are many, many sporter 8mm's out there. Including some very nice ones from Europe. They get a discount because of the chambering. El Mariachi has the right idea here.
 
 
The 8mm Mauser is a great round. The 8mm Mauser will push a 200 grain bullet to quite respectable velocities.

Pre and post WWII American gunwriters pooh-pahed the cartridge, not due to technical merit, but because of Nationalism.

Anyway the war(s) are over, neither the 30-06 or the 8mm are in service, Germany and the US are bestest buddies and everything is made in China.
 
A 98 Mauser sporter's value is directly related to the quality of the work done to it. There are some who say any sporter is worthless while others can't get their wallet out fast enough when they see a Griffen and Howe Mauser Sporter. Personally I think a well done sporter has slightly more value than the same rifle left in military configuration as long as the rifle had no military/historical significance to start with.

The least expensive way to build a sporter is to retain the original barrel and chambering. Most of the time the barrel will be shortened. For the handloader this means looking at a faster powder than the military loadings used. For reloading 8X57 I use my older manuals such as my Speer #5 from 1962, those loads are not at all anemic.

The 8X57 is an excellent round for just about any North American game. With the large bears that eat people I would be happier holding my 450 Alaskan. But my Mauser happily handles everything from light 150ish up to 220s. It also loves just about any 196 or similar surplus rounds.

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Years ago, a great many 8mm model 98's were rebarreled because there was very little if any 8mm Mauser ammo or reloading components available in the U.S..

Not to mention, they used to be a dime a dozen in every hardware and drug store.
So a lot of them got re-barreled & sporterized just because many of us could afford to build a different caliber rifle much cheaper then we could buy a new Model 70 Winchester.

Today, a reloader is not at all handicapped by leaving it an 8mm and loading to full pressure with the good bullets available now.

rc
 
Thanks for the Gunbroker.com links Mariachi. I have been checking some of those auctions out. I have never bought firearms across the net, though I suppose it is like buying anything else.

A pawnshop a couple of towns over has one for $180.00, haven't looked at it yet. There is also a Gunshow coming to town in a couple of weeks. I will probably hold off on a purchase till the show unless the $180.00 one seems to a good deal.

I stopped at a gun shop today, the only Mausers he had were not for sale... he is a bit of a collector. He had one from Argentina he said was the best Mauser made.. all chrome moly. He had another that had lots of Nazi marks.

He tried to switch me to a Mosin Nagant. He had one in great shape for $130.. and the round seems very similar. But if I can pickup an 8mm reasonably, I will go that way.

Thanks for looking for me;)

Mudcat
 
Then hold off 'til the gun show and see what you can find there. But in the meantime keep your eye on G/B (I've bought 7 guns off that site since April with zero problems---and I can walk you thru it also if you need some tips). Every now and then there's a seller that either doesn't 'advertise' his firearm properly, or mis-labels it, or neglects to post a pic---and it can slip thru the cracks & get missed by other buyers. Also you may wanna join up on the Gunboards forum and check their For Sale stuff. Or even here in THR. The biggest trick though is to NOT be in a rush, and to have a clue on what you want and what the 'real' price should be. Plus looking around doesn't cost a cent......:D


(oh yeah, and I'm sooooo glad you didn't buy a M/Nagant. Quite possibly the ugliest firearm since the catapult...:rolleyes: )
 
I would like to know what the biggest game that can be takin down relatively well by a 8mm?
 
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