Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

The age-old discussion over which handgun is best for bear defense is finally settled

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Gtscotty, Jul 18, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    2,201
    Location:
    Wyoming
    It's a Hi-point .45 acp.... who would have thought?

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/07/dean-weingarten/man-kills-9-foot-bear-45/#more-328810

    I couldn't help but post this article up. As many threads as we have had discussing the best possible handgun/cartridge combination to be carrying when you are attacked by marauding bears, the one guy I've read about in recent memory to actually face the above situation turned out to be just some dude with a Hi-point. :rolleyes:

    Thankfully everyone made it through unscathed, except for the bear, who was able to dodge the first 6 shots lobbed out of the Hi-point, but apparently got tagged by the 7th.
     
  2. silicosys4

    silicosys4 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,372
    That reminds me of a passage by Jim Cirillo in one of his books.
    He was not a fan of his department issue .38spcl. loads, a 158gr. roundnose at 750fps or so. Much of his distaste and mistrust of that particular load probably came from his experiences with his experiences of several shots of it bouncing off of his opponents skull and failing to incapacitate him during the first shootout he details in his book.

    His department lieutenant was a proponent of the load, and carried a picture of a polar bear on his desk that was killed with one shot to the heart by the load, used by a policeman who was forced to fire at and kill the bear in a zoo when the bear attacked someone through the fence.

    What works when you are standing on a balcony above the bear with time to aim and fire into the vitals might not do the job on a bear charging at you with intent to turn you into a pile of bear pooh the next day

    The article did say the bear ran off 50 yards, very agitated, then died. 50 yards would probably have gotten him to you if you were on the ground firing to stop a charge.

    Glad everyone came through unscathed, except for yogi.
     
  3. W.E.G.

    W.E.G. Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2006
    Messages:
    7,392
    Location:
    all over Virginia
    Or maybe this just means that Hi-Point guys are more likely to have such an encounter?
     
  4. Deaf Smith

    Deaf Smith Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2004
    Messages:
    4,515
    Location:
    TEXAS!
    What it means is that IF you can shoot strait under pressure (and that is a real big if) then most fairly powerful handguns can do the job with bullets that penetrate enough.

    A .357 or .41 or .44 will do (or 10mm or hot .45s or .40s.) But again, you have to do it under pressure of being maulded..

    Deaf
     
  5. Field Tester

    Field Tester Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Messages:
    1,058
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    I was just about to post the same.

    We've heard of bears killed by .22 LR and even pellet guns. Shot placement is everything. But I would use none of the above for "stopping the threat right now!"
     
  6. Iron Sight

    Iron Sight Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2007
    Messages:
    479
    Location:
    Utah
  7. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    2,201
    Location:
    Wyoming
    I wonder what the final ruling was on that defensive shoot in Denali? I would think that if you shot a bear inside of Denali National Park, the park service would be out for your blood regardless of whether you were threatened or not.
     
  8. BLB68

    BLB68 Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    Messages:
    864
    Location:
    WA
    There was also a black bear shot and killed with a Taurus 1911 a while back in Oregon.

    Edit: Not the original article, but someone copy/pasted it here.
     
  9. Capt. Ct.

    Capt. Ct. Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Messages:
    374
    Location:
    SE Connecticut
    When I was a kid maybe 12 years old I remember reading an article in one of the outdoor magazines my father subscribed to. I may be a bit rusty on the details since we are going back 50 years or more. The basic story is that the largest bear killed in Whatever state it was, was killed by a woman who was camping. She needed to use the bathroom (brush) in the middle of the night. She encountered a bear and killed him with a .22.
     
  10. Impureclient

    Impureclient Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2008
    Messages:
    838
    Location:
    Florida
    Are people routinely getting mauled by bears after shooting them with smaller calibers? Is that why this is ever brought up?
     
  11. jjones45

    jjones45 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2013
    Messages:
    563
    Location:
    Ohio
    How do you miss a 9ft bear 6 out of 7 shots, Oh he had a hi point. They failed to report he also cleared 4 malfunctions during that string of 7 shots lol jk. Not a hi point basher just having a little fun. This is a great story for those who think anything less than 10mm or a magnum cartridge will suffice for big game animal defense, although hunting bear with a 45 might be stretch. I feel a little better now when I'm in bear country packing my ruger sr45. I can hear the 45 acp fanboys now in the caliber wars saying "the reason I carry a 45 is because a 9 or 40 has never killed a bear with one shot" lol. Good stuff here
     
  12. ClickClickD'oh

    ClickClickD'oh Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2007
    Messages:
    2,082
    Location:
    Lewisville, Tx
    Look, I'm not going to outright call the guy a liar, but I will say that there's something wrong with his story"

    Oh really? No food? At your house? What were your plans for dinner?

    I think we need to hear from Paul Harvey on this one.
     
  13. 45_auto

    45_auto Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    Messages:
    2,155
    Location:
    Southern Louisiana
    They were probably planning to eat some of their food that they keep in the house.

    You really need to figure out the difference between "no food AROUND the house" as stated in the bear story, and "no food AT the house" as you're implying.
     
  14. sigarms228

    sigarms228 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Messages:
    893
    Location:
    Northern Illinois
    “I couldn’t believe that it came back,” he said.

    Landess grabbed his .45 pistol, stepped out onto his upper deck, took aim and fired seven rounds toward the bear’s vitals. He said the bear “got crazy” and ran about 50 feet before it collapsed and died."

    He shot the bear from the upper deck where the bear probably could not reach him.

    The situation would have been totally different than someone finding a bear charging them at full speed a short distance away. In that case the bear may have died also IF he could have gotten some shots off and into it's vitals in an extremely stressful situation but by the time the bear died he probably would have chewed through most of his neck and been eating his innards.

    A .45 would be a whole lot better than nothing but surely not my first choice. I suppose and Elephant could be dropped in it's tracks with a .22LR shot directly through the eyeball and into the brain.
     
  15. il.bill
    • Contributing Member

    il.bill Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,061
    Location:
    FOID Land (Illinois)
    Best Bear Self-Preservation Pistol: Beretta 950B .25 ACP

    I kept this news article and thought this is a good time and place to post it. It may, or may not, settle some 'bear defense' arguments. I originally got it off of the internet, so you know it must be true.




    Woman Stops Grizzly Attack With .25 Cal Pistol
    3/8/2013

    This is a story of self control and marksmanship with an itsy bitsy shooter by a woman against a fierce predator. What is the smallest caliber you trust to protect yourself?

    Try the Beretta Jetfire Model 950B chambered in caliber .25 ACP!


    "While hiking in Alberta Canada with my boyfriend we were surprised by a huge grizzly bear charging us from out of nowhere.

    She must have been protecting her cubs because she was extremely aggressive. If I hadn't had my Beretta Jetfire 950B pistol with me I wouldn't be here today!

    Just one shot to my boyfriend's knee cap was all it took; the bear got him and I was able to escape by simply walking away at a brisk pace.

    It's one of the best pistols in my collection!"
     
  16. Deltaboy1984

    Deltaboy1984 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2008
    Messages:
    6,306
    Location:
    Johnson County Texas
    Bottom line with me is this. A grizzly bear broke into his house and he killed it with a 45.
     
  17. Deaf Smith

    Deaf Smith Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2004
    Messages:
    4,515
    Location:
    TEXAS!
    You guys ever hear of a man named Karamojo Bell? He was a Scottish adventurer, big game hunter in East Africa, soldier, decorated pilot, sailor, writer, and painter.

    Bopped off a few THOUSAND elephants with a 6.5mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer and later a 7x57 Mauser.

    Yes I said thousands.Brained them with those little guns. Used only FMJ slugs.

    Shot lions and leopards to.

    So when I hear of bears being killed with .45s and 9mms, I an not surprised.

    Sure I'll still pack my favorite field gun.

    [​IMG]

    But I won't worry if I use super hot loads or just more moderate 240 hard cast at 1100 fps.

    Deaf
     
  18. Jim K

    Jim K Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    17,622
    Not exactly an example of an expert marksman staying cool under pressure. He fired seven shots, six of which missed a pretty big target.

    Jim

    (P.S. I don't say I would have done better; in bear country, I wouldn't use a handgun at all. The main gun on the tank I would be in should do the job.)

    JK
     
  19. ROBBY.1911

    ROBBY.1911 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2007
    Messages:
    225
    the dead of night

    the best handgun for every purpose is the one you can grab and load in your bedroom at pitch black midnight with your wife screaming and you are aware of multiple intruders in your home. for me that's a Glock. i have worked on them for 15 years and know every part and where it goes with my eyes closed. it doesn't do any good to have 10 guns in your collection if none of them feel like a hand in glove when you pick it up.:banghead:
     
  20. Chocolate Bayou

    Chocolate Bayou Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2013
    Messages:
    224
    Location:
    Brazoria County, TX
    Il Bill

    Reminds me of the time my wife and I were hiking in Yosemite and stopped to eat some lunch. My wife asked me if I could outrun a grizzly, I told her no, but I didn't have to. All I have to do is out run you! She didn't see the humor.
     
  21. AbitNutz

    AbitNutz Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    942
    I was always into centerfire pistols 45, 357 mag even 460 Rolland. I was convinced that I knew what power was. Then I bought an M1A. Friends...a handgun is only there to get you to a rifle. That 308 makes a 44 mag look like a pop gun.
     
  22. Combat Engineer

    Combat Engineer Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2013
    Messages:
    154
    Location:
    Wolverine country
    "...ever hear of a man named Karamojo Bell? He was a Scottish adventurer, big game hunter in East Africa, soldier, decorated pilot, sailor, writer, and painter.

    Bopped off a few THOUSAND elephants with a 6.5mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer and later a 7x57 Mauser."

    He also used a 303 Lee Enfield rifle. He shot 1,011* elephants.

    But these are high velocity rifles moving 170 - 200 grain bullets at 2,500 fps. That kind of velocity is needed to smash thru an elephant skull.

    We are not talking a slow moving Hi-Point 45ACP 830 fps 230 gr fmj bullet here. Now that is impressive.




    PS: Bell did use a Mauser C96 pistol, a very capable handgun, but to the best of my knowledge, he did not hunt large game with it. BTW this is a handgun forum, and stopping a bear (or elephant) with a long gun, that is a rifle or a shotgun, belongs in either the 'Rifle Country' or the 'Shotguns' forum(s).

    *Barclay, Edgar N. "Chapter One - correspondence with WDM Bell and author". Big Game Shooting Records 1931. HF&G Witherby
     
  23. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    18,507
    Location:
    Deep in the Ozarks
    I would not want to be standing on the GROUND while the bear "got crazy" and was running around!
     
  24. Kiln

    Kiln Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2011
    Messages:
    2,465
    My personal choice? German grenade pistol:

    [​IMG]
     
  25. jimbo555

    jimbo555 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,128
    Location:
    Statesboro,Georgia
    Who lives in Alaska and doesn't own a rifle?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page